Blacktail or Mule Deer?

[RosinBag]

Actually it is a map from Ca F&W, the biologists I have talked with swear by it.

I doubt that map has ever been on the fish and game website. I also don’t think the biologists swear by it. I know many people that dna their bucks because they say their blacktails and there has yet to be a single one that is. Biologists I presume have some of that data so I doubt they swear by a map that looks 30 years old. Just what I think though.

 

[Bubblehide]

I doubt that map has ever been on the fish and game website. I also don’t think the biologists swear by it. I know many people that dna their bucks because they say their blacktails and there has yet to be a single one that is. Biologists I presume have some of that data so I doubt they swear by a map that looks 30 years old. Just what I think though.

That map has been in the regulation book in years past, and has been on fht F&G/F&W website for years and years (where have you been). Keep in mind that blacktail are the dominant deer, not mule deer. So in any areas in which they overlap, the odds are that the off-spring, over time, will be more blacktail than mule deer. But hey, I am just going off of what is published by F&W and what their biologist have to say about the matter. I simply presume that they are a reasonable authority on the matter.

By the way, Of all those many people that you know that have DNA-ed they bucks, how many official DNA reports have you personally seen?

 

[Bubblehide]

Which is this one, blacktail or mulie

 

[Smithb9841]

I doubt that map has ever been on the fish and game website. I also don’t think the biologists swear by it. I know many people that dna their bucks because they say their blacktails and there has yet to be a single one that is. Biologists I presume have some of that data so I doubt they swear by a map that looks 30 years old. Just what I think though.

Do you have any info about getting a deer DNA tested? Where do u go, what sample is needed, and what’s the cost? I’d be curious to get one tested from the lower elevations I hunt. im not saying I 100% agree with the map posted but to think it’s as simple as East and west of I5 is a little too simple.. I agree it needs to be that way for scoring purpose if your into that.

 

[RosinBag]

That map has been in the regulation book in years past, and has been on fht F&G/F&W website for years and years (where have you been). Keep in mind that blacktail are the dominant deer, not mule deer. So in any areas in which they overlap, the odds are that the off-spring, over time, will be more blacktail than mule deer. But hey, I am just going off of what is published by F&W and what their biologist have to say about the matter. I simply presume that they are a reasonable authority on the matter.

By the way, Of all those many people that you know that have DNA-ed they bucks, how many official DNA reports have you personally seen?

Just their reports. But because a buck is presumably the dominant buck, doesn’t mean a buck is a Blacktail because 25 breeding seasons ago it was dominant. The reason the boundaries are what they are is to ensure the integrity of the records book. So bucks east of the boundary line don’t qualify as they are not Columbia’s Blacktails to the degree to make them true Columbian Blacktails.

C zones are the prime example, many think they are Blacktails, they don’t have dna of combinations Blacktails or those bucks would re-write the record books every year. The reason their antlers are so much bigger is that they are not black tails.

 

[Smithb9841]

Which is this one, blacktail or mulieView attachment 172052

I would think Blacktail on that one based on size of head compared to horns. Maybe it’s just the picture but that head looks tiny I would expect the head of a mule deer to be larger. But idk

 

[Bubblehide]

Just their reports. But because a buck is presumably the dominant buck, doesn’t mean a buck is a Blacktail because 25 breeding seasons ago it was dominant. The reason the boundaries are what they are is to ensure the integrity of the records book. So bucks east of the boundary line don’t qualify as they are not Columbia’s Blacktails to the degree to make them true Columbian Blacktails.

C zones are the prime example, many think they are Blacktails, they don’t have dna of combinations Blacktails or those bucks would re-write the record books every year. The reason their antlers are so much bigger is that they are not black tails.

Very much agree, that is why the record books will accept the proof of a DNA test.

 

[RosinBag]

For Ca F&G, they get samples tested for about $20. I believe, P&Y, B&C and F&G all have processes i. Place to do the testing.

Private companies like DNA Solutions charge private parties more than that, but most deer DNA is done for breeding not species identification for the most part.

 

[RosinBag]

Very much agree, that is why the record books will accept the proof of a DNA test.

That they will, but I don’t know of any Columbian Blacktails from CA that have been entered outside the boundaries that had a good DNA test. There potentially could be a couple, but it is extremely rare.

 

[Bubblehide]

I would think Blacktail on that one based on size of head compared to horns. Maybe it’s just the picture but that head looks tiny I would expect the head of a mule deer to be larger. But idk

It came out of X4

 

[Azone]

What would our deer on the central coast test as? Dominant blacktail? Dominant mule deer? California mule deer? I've always heard that the majority of our deer are crosses between both species
I've seen certain characteristics that are dominant in one area and seemingly nonexistent 15 to 25 miles away.

 

[Bubblehide]

What would our deer on the central coast test as? Dominant blacktail? Dominant mule deer? California mule deer? I've always heard that the majority of our deer are crosses between both species
I've seen certain characteristics that are dominant in one area and seemingly nonexistent 15 to 25 miles away.

Per F&W the southern central coast is mixed, north of their is supposed to be blacktail

 

[Azone]

Per F&W the southern central coast is mixed, north of their is supposed to be blacktail

That would make sense. I've also have heard people more than once claim that the Hearst Ranch imported mule deer to the area. Sounds far fetched to me, but money can usually buy anything in the world.

 

[Smithb9841]

For Ca F&G, they get samples tested for about $20. I believe, P&Y, B&C and F&G all have processes i. Place to do the testing.

Private companies like DNA Solutions charge private parties more than that, but most deer DNA is done for breeding not species identification for the most part.

who would you contact about getting a test done?

 

[RosinBag]

Any of the aforementioned

 

[bowuntr]

who would you contact about getting a test done?

Contact any certified P&Y or B&C measurer. They can collect the sample and send it in. The only deer tested that came back pure Columbia Blacktail was taken from a C zone, surprisingly quite a ways east of the boundary. Most all the other deer tested are hybrids. That's why in some areas you see characteristics of both. The B&C boundary errors on the side of the smaller deer... the Columbia Blacktail... for record keeping purposes. When it was drawn they used the best data at the time... which to this day is pretty accurate.

The map you guys are chatting about has been around for a long long time... before DNA testing. Look at it... it's drawn by geographic boundaries. Ed F

 

[Fl Flatlander]

DNA all the way. Great Buck!

 

[tgillespie]

My guess is mule deer

 

[notradame]

Aren't they all thhe same thing

 

[Marble]

What would our deer on the central coast test as? Dominant blacktail? Dominant mule deer? California mule deer? I've always heard that the majority of our deer are crosses between both species
I've seen certain characteristics that are dominant in one area and seemingly nonexistent 15 to 25 miles away.

Keep in mind nutrition and mineral content of soil can have an affect on antler development.

Spoke with a warden after I killed a very strange palmated buck. He said..".I see a lot of those in this range from here to there (im being vague). A biologist told me there was a mineral that contributed to the odd growth." I thought it was interesting.