Blackhorn 209 vs other Powders

[treillw]

I have used Blackhorn 209 in the years past. I saw some for sale and it was something like $80 for a half pound. $160 a pound is insane.

Trippel seven powder was sitting below it for like $30 a pound.

Is there any advantage to using the Blackhorn?? What is regarded as the best muzzleloader powder out there?

Thanks!

 

[realunlucky]

209 has no equal that's why they can charge crazy prices

 

[CorbLand]

209 is cleaner and more consistent.

Doesnt mean you cant find a solid load using 777.

 

[sabotloader]

I use both powders equally effectively. There is no doubt that BH is more convenient and easier to use. But at this house it is not worj the price difference at all.

 

[5MilesBack]

If I hadn't bought a 5#'er before Covid, my daughter would be using 777. Blackhorn is great, but it's not 5 times as great as 777.

 

[Novashooter]

209 is cleaner and more consistent.

Doesnt mean you cant find a solid load using 777.

Cleaner, yes. It's basically a smokeless powder that can be used bulk for bulk in place of blackpowder.

More consistent, not really. Certainly not lot-to-lot, BH209 can vary greatly. For velocity spreads, I've seen very few report BH209 with extreme spreads that were anything spectacular. Plenty good, but nothing seems to be as consistent as real blackpowder. It's about on par with 777, which is also phenomenal powder.

BH209 is cleaner, which makes fouling control very easy. That's its #1 benefit. Fouling control is right up there with the most important aspects for muzzleloader accuracy. You can get just as good of results with 777 with a little more work. Pyrodex is fine too, just a little weaker, use more of it if you absolutely need that last 100 fps. Real blackpowder is fantastic too, easy to control the fouling, even if there is more of it. The only big downside is it is not at every store like pyrodex and 777 is.

 

[ElDiablito]

BH209: less corrosive, less smoke, more velocity (with higher charge weights) and less fouling so no swabbing between shots.

 

[Novashooter]

BH209: less corrosive, less smoke, more velocity (with higher charge weights) and less fouling so no swabbing between shots.

It is less corrosive than any other BP substitute. It does have less smoke, but a lot of us consider that a downside. The fouling thing is true, although depending on what you are shooting, you may or may not benefit from swabbing between shots. For sure it is easier to manage than others.

As for the higher velocity I don't think you can really state that as a 100% true fact. If we are talking volume of powder, not weight, I've seen plenty of instances 777 matched or exceeded the velocity of BH209 bulk for bulk. I think it's kind of a weird argument for a muzzleloader though, as there's really no reason you can't just use more powder. This is compounded by the maybe too general rule of thumb that most modern inlines can handle 150gr of blackpowder, or 150gr volume of a blackpowder substitute such as 777. Blackhorn 209 is the outlier in that it is generally stated that only 120gr volume is safe in most rifles. Now if you compare 150gr volume of 777 vs 120gr volume of BH209, I'm betting the 777 is faster in all but the rarest instances. I will say that both 777 and BH209 are likely going to produce higher velocities than pyrodex or real blackpowder almost every time bulk for bulk.

 

[Novashooter]

I have used Blackhorn 209 in the years past. I saw some for sale and it was something like $80 for a half pound. $160 a pound is insane.

Trippel seven powder was sitting below it for like $30 a pound.

Is there any advantage to using the Blackhorn?? What is regarded as the best muzzleloader powder out there?

Thanks!

What is regarded as "best" is way too loaded a question. Those who only care about maximum performance probably aren't even shooting a muzzleloader powder, they are in the realm of real smokeless powders. Those who want to extend their hunting season into a muzzleloader season with as minimal work as possible are almost always going to gravitate to a pelletized powder like 777 pellets. Those who want to skirt the rules of muzzleloader seasons as much as they can to gain as much possible advantage as they can are going to probably be using loose 777 or BH209. Those who like shooting a variety of muzzleloaders is probably going to want real blackpowder, which is the only powder that works in anything. Yet after all these years good old Pyrodex exists, so people still must buy it.

 

[ElDiablito]

It is less corrosive than any other BP substitute. It does have less smoke, but a lot of us consider that a downside. The fouling thing is true, although depending on what you are shooting, you may or may not benefit from swabbing between shots. For sure it is easier to manage than others.

As for the higher velocity I don't think you can really state that as a 100% true fact. If we are talking volume of powder, not weight, I've seen plenty of instances 777 matched or exceeded the velocity of BH209 bulk for bulk. I think it's kind of a weird argument for a muzzleloader though, as there's really no reason you can't just use more powder. This is compounded by the maybe too general rule of thumb that most modern inlines can handle 150gr of blackpowder, or 150gr volume of a blackpowder substitute such as 777. Blackhorn 209 is the outlier in that it is generally stated that only 120gr volume is safe in most rifles. Now if you compare 150gr volume of 777 vs 120gr volume of BH209, I'm betting the 777 is faster in all but the rarest instances. I will say that both 777 and BH209 are likely going to produce higher velocities than pyrodex or real blackpowder almost every time bulk for bulk.

Velocity - unit for unit most will see slightly higher velocity from BH209 over loose 777. Yes you’d be really close in velocity with a max charge (150 gr 777 vs 120 gr BH209). Approx numbers in a .50:

120 gr FFg 777 with a 300 gr bullet: ~1858
150 gr FFg 777 with a 300 gr bullet: ~2066
120 gr BH209 with a 300 gr bullet: ~ 2032

Smoke - I don’t know anyone who likes not being able to spot their shots (aside from the purists who shoot real black and just like smoke clouds). For reference:

 

[Novashooter]

There are way too many variables to say with certainty BH209 will be faster. It was slightly faster in that one load. I've shot plenty that 777 was faster.

As for smoke, if you don't already like it, you probably never will.

 

[William Sublette]

At $10 an oz, the manufacturer is basically looking you in the eye and saying:

"Let's see how stupid these guys are."

 

[Novashooter]

At $10 an oz, the manufacturer is basically looking you in the eye and saying:

"Let's see how stupid these guys are."

Kinda. Hodgdon owns the brands of BH 209 and 777. They know anyone who won't buy BH 209 will buy 777. They really have the USA market by the balls.

They did sell Goex, who is now owned by a rocket company. Still made in USA. Just saying.

 

[ENCORE]

There are way too many variables to say with certainty BH209 will be faster. It was slightly faster in that one load. I've shot plenty that 777 was faster.

As for smoke, if you don't already like it, you probably never will.

With a 120gr VOLUME CHARGE, averaged by taking 10 VOLUME drops and weighing each of the 10 drops, and using that average weight charge, I'm sending a 350gr XLD bullet at 2,183fps (lot#41). That's faster than 150grs of T7 with a 300gr bullet.

T7 is a good propellant, but no where near as stable as BH. For extreme accuracy and especially for LONG range, T7 can't hold the consistency as BH. There are no serious competitive modern inline shooters using T7, while all are using BH.