Black ovis/camofire going out of business?

[alexnelon]

I know there are some but I really haven’t looked.
You think what GSM owns is crazy? Go look at your everyday items.
Johnson and Johnson. Nestle. Pepsi. Coke. 3M. GE. Kelloggs.
Then think that some of those are even owned by something larger.

Get too far into this rabbit hole and you'll come out sounding like Kanye...

 

[Wheels]

I’m assuming those numbers on the doc are wholesale numbers so street value is easily double that. I know a guy that works for GSM and can get me anything they sell for 50% off, and I’m positive they’ll still make money.

 

[alexnelon]

I’m assuming those numbers on the doc are wholesale numbers so street value is easily double that. I know a guy that works for GSM and can get me anything they sell for 50% off, and I’m positive they’ll still make money.

Average profit margin for imported retail goods is 70-85%. Some items are over 1,000%. Some more than that.

Manufacturers (and I use that term loosely, "importers" might be more appropriate) don't lose money on products period.

 

[grfox92]

I know there are some but I really haven’t looked.
You think what GSM owns is crazy? Go look at your everyday items.
Johnson and Johnson. Nestle. Pepsi. Coke. 3M. GE. Kelloggs.
Then think that some of those are even owned by something larger.

I was aware of all that, I guess I figured naively that the hunting industry was a little more niche and smaller scale. Guess not.

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[tony]

REI doesn't sound like its far from black orvising itself either.

Last time I was in the Easton/Columbus Ohio store, I felt like I was at a no kings rally. Looking at a hiking pack and some dude I think, he looked homeless. Sandals and black painted finger and toenails was seriously creepy. And Columbus is about the last outdoors city in the US other than city and metro parks.

 

[fngTony]

REI doesn't sound like its far from black orvising itself either.

Last time I was in the Easton/Columbus Ohio store, I felt like I was at a no kings rally. Looking at a hiking pack and some dude I think, he looked homeless. Sandals and black painted finger and toenails was seriously creepy. And Columbus is about the last outdoors city in the US other than city and metro parks.

Ya there flagship store in downtown Denver still has life to it but the surrounding area stores are dismal. Pretty sure Sierra is killing rei here, at least for clothes and common gear.

 

[TandKHunting]

Based on the talk of BO losing 50% sales YoY, I wonder if other companies are seeing a drop in sales...has me a little gun shy to order anything from smaller companies right now.

We are up 75% in sales from this time last year. Not every company is struggling. The ones that do struggle run into leadership, strategy, and innovation issues. Some people don’t know how to run a company and are at the wheel.

Like any market, the hunting market is extremely competitive. I invest a lot of my time into analyzing data, trends, innovating new products, and planning marketing strategies.

Companies that tend to fail are the ones that take their foot off the gas, sit back, and think nothing has to be done when 3, 5, or 20 million is coming in. I can tell ya….the work gets even more tedious and never ending when you hit the multi million dollar revenue per year marks.

Can’t say I’m surprised when I see a business fail (and I have seen many) and the owners and managers are hunting for 75% of the time during the fall (the busy time obviously). It simply doesn’t work like that if you want your company to be around for 20 or 30 years.

 

[MuleDeerMike]

Not a fan of ElkShape but you can tell after watching this video that BO has screwed him over so bad financially to a degree that he probably never thought he'd be at. Gonna have to sell his house to pay off the studio he works in and then figure out how to rebuild. Has no money to hire a lawyer to recoup, otherwise there's no doubt he would. Seems like this whole thing is going to hurt all the small businesses and guys like Kendall Card and the big companies will make out just fine. At least until the feds get wind of what happened here.... Then the heads will roll.

 

[danwattsmessick]

Not a fan of ElkShape but you can tell after watching this video that BO has screwed him over so bad financially to a degree that he probably never thought he'd be at. Gonna have to sell his house to pay off the studio he works in and then figure out how to rebuild. Has no money to hire a lawyer to recoup, otherwise there's no doubt he would. Seems like this whole thing is going to hurt all the small businesses and guys like Kendall Card and the big companies will make out just fine. At least until the feds get wind of what happened here.... Then the heads will roll.

I don’t think he’s as bad off as you say. He sold/is selling his house in Idaho because he and his wife are having a home built on the property his studio is located at (I know because I offered to bid the job wiring it.) He and his wife both work in Spokane and were commuting. Nothing to do with the deal with BO.

 

[MuleDeerMike]

I don’t think he’s as bad off as you say. He sold/is selling his house in Idaho because he and his wife are having a home built on the property his studio is located at (I know because I offered to bid the job wiring it.) He and his wife both work in Spokane and were commuting. Nothing to do with the deal with BO.

To be clear, I'm not rooting for ElkShape to fail. I am impartial to his situation. With that being said, it seemed like he was saying he was selling his house in Idaho to pay off the studio. That's 100% what it seemed like and what the context was when he said it. When did you bid that job? In the last 3 months...? He did say he is very good friends with all the Black Ovis guys...

 

[danwattsmessick]

To be clear, I'm not rooting for ElkShape to fail. I am impartial to his situation. With that being said, it seemed like he was saying he was selling his house in Idaho to pay off the studio. That's 100% what it seemed like and what the context was when he said it. When did you bid that job? In the last 3 months...? He did say he is very good friends with all the Black Ovis guys...

The new house is currently standing. The builder uses their own sub contractors.

I live and work in Spokane and drive by his studio/house multiple times a week.

 

[MuleDeerMike]

The new house is currently standing. The builder uses their own sub contractors.

I live and work in Spokane and drive by his studio/house multiple times a week.

Well I hope it all works out for him and everyone else that got taken on this. Why BO would keep ordering when they couldn't sell will be the million dollar question here. Time will tell the story for all involved.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

I don’t think he’s as bad off as you say. He sold/is selling his house in Idaho because he and his wife are having a home built on the property his studio is located at (I know because I offered to bid the job wiring it.) He and his wife both work in Spokane and were commuting. Nothing to do with the deal with BO.

PF? I hope for his sake he’s moving back to Washington.

 

[danwattsmessick]

PF? I hope for his sake he’s moving back to Washington.

Greenacres, just down the road from SVA.

 

[SMOKYMTN]

I just meant PACER access. Aziak said somewhere in the filing docs there were severance payouts listed but he didn't state the values. I was just curious what the values of those listed severance payouts was.

You've been asking for this and I totally missed it. Sorry. Here it is:

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

You've been asking for this and I totally missed it. Sorry. Here it is:

Thanks. Looks like 1.5mo of payroll severance vs a golden parachute.

If they paid out something similar to all their employees its not the most egregious thing. Shitty if they only paid themselves a severance.

Either way I'm sure all the business owners owed money are probably still angry $29k was paid out to the folks who literally made the decisions to "steal" from them by knowingly still ordering products when they had to know the ship was sunk.

 

[roosiebull]

Like ordering more merchandise? That's really the part that from the outside seems super unethical at minimum.

I am fairly naive to how a business like BO operates, but maybe they had some hope and were still ordering to keep the ship afloat with sales, maybe there was no malice? We can all speculate all we want, but I assume none of us know how things actually played out which makes it tough to armchair QB

I’m blaming MF, even though I don’t even know why everyone hates them and don’t care, it’s gotta be their fault

 

[badshot]

I am fairly naive to how a business like BO operates, but maybe they had some hope and were still ordering to keep the ship afloat with sales, maybe there was no malice? We can all speculate all we want, but I assume none of us know how things actually played out which makes it tough to armchair QB

I’m blaming MF, even though I don’t even know why everyone hates them and don’t care, it’s gotta be their fault

DING DING DING... Elkshape said it in his video that the employees which would include the procurement/buyers didn't know until they shut down the site and had a meeting saying they closed the doors and everyone got a severance check. They are the ones still putting in orders. Most on here just keep calling out Kendall like he was the only leadership there. He wasn't the CEO, he was the president. His severance was $3951, that's peanuts, if it was 2 weeks pay that means he only made a hair over 100k a year salary. There were investors. I don't know anything more than what has been posted online but I do know the mind of a small business owner and they didn't start it as a cash cow. Its a passion, they also are some of the last to admit that they can't fix it once its gone over the edge. At some point those investors step in and say enough is enough.

 

[alexnelon]

DING DING DING... Elkshape said it in his video that the employees which would include the procurement/buyers didn't know until they shut down the site and had a meeting saying they closed the doors and everyone got a severance check. They are the ones still putting in orders. Most on here just keep calling out Kendall like he was the only leadership there. He wasn't the CEO, he was the president. His severance was $3951, that's peanuts, if it was 2 weeks pay that means he only made a hair over 100k a year salary. There were investors. I don't know anything more than what has been posted online but I do know the mind of a small business owner and they didn't start it as a cash cow. Its a passion, they also are some of the last to admit that they can't fix it once its gone over the edge. At some point those investors step in and say enough is enough.

Looks more like the damage was done before they (the president and the ceo) ever gave over the reins to the investment firm.

And by damage I mean leadership siphoning all the liquidity out of the company instead of putting cash aside to get ready for the inevitable, obviously imminent crash of the Covid hunting market bubble.

 

[dtrkyman]

It's really wild to see the amount of brands that have a big daddy in the industry. Are there even any brands out there that aren't owned by some big conglomerate?

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Not many, Grim Reaper broadheads is one!


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