Black Hills 5.56 77 Gr TMK in Ruger American Gen 2 Predator 223

[t_carlson]

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I found this on the cz-USA website and apparently they think it’s safe. From what I understand they say the CIP 223 is the same dimensions as the 223 but with 556 pressures. Google CZ-USA 223 and you should find the link if you wish.

I interpret that to be saying their ".223" chambers are actually spec'd to 5.56.

Not the same thing.

5.56 is fine in a .223 LOL

My Ruger American Gen 1 is actually labeled 5.56

Then its not a .223

I think I asked you that question in reverse first. Tell me one occasion where it has legitimately caused a problem in a 223 bolt action. I give you about 2,500 where it has worked out just fine in my own personal experience. I’ll bet plenty of others will chime in here with higher round counts than me.

I googled "rifle blows up 5.56 in 223" and this was the third result in the search. Its not that hard, folks.

https://www.rugerforum.net/threads/223-explode-from-5-56-ammo.398423/

This one was about 7th or 8th:

Bad results firing 5.56 Nato in a .223 rifle

Interesting article in this month American Gunsmith magazine. As most of us have long known, firing 5.56 Nato in a rifle chambered for .223 is a terrible idea. Evidently this gunsmith's client did not know this. The rifle arrived at the gunsmith with the bolt stuck. The owner said they were...

www.practicalmachinist.com

The issue comes because 5.56 NATO chambers have more freebore and a couple other small differences so some 5.56 rounds chambered in a 223 Rem "could" jam into the rifling cause way higher pressures.

That is the primary concern I would have.

 

[ElPollo]

I interpret that to be saying their ".223" chambers are actually spec'd to 5.56.

Not the same thing.



Then its not a .223




I googled "rifle blows up 5.56 in 223" and this was the third result in the search. Its not that hard, folks.

https://www.rugerforum.net/threads/223-explode-from-5-56-ammo.398423/

This one was about 7th or 8th:

Bad results firing 5.56 Nato in a .223 rifle

Interesting article in this month American Gunsmith magazine. As most of us have long known, firing 5.56 Nato in a rifle chambered for .223 is a terrible idea. Evidently this gunsmith's client did not know this. The rifle arrived at the gunsmith with the bolt stuck. The owner said they were...

www.practicalmachinist.com

That is the primary concern I would have.

This was what you asked me:

Please cite one legitimate source, other than an anonymous person on the internet, who says there is no problem with shooting 5.56 in a .223?

Your first example is from an anonymous person on the internet who added no supporting information and the entire thread is people saying that sticking a bullet in the bore doesn’t make any sense unless he had a squib and fired another round after it.

The second one is someone reporting a perforated primer in cheap imported 5.56 steel case. Not that that’s a rare event even with 5.56 chambers.

I would not call either of those convincing evidence that there is a problem shooting 5.56 in 223 chambers. Shooting is dangerous, no doubt. But there is nothing in either one of those cases that connects the use of 5.56 ammo to what happened there.

Look, I get it that there is a preponderance of “experts” on the internet who say this is a bad idea. I know that Al Gore created the internet to be the center of knowledge and all. I will not disagree that shooting 77 gr 5.56 out of a 1960s 1-14” twist barrel with a 223 chamber may created some problems. But no risk averse manufacturer is going to intentionally make a new 1-8” twist 223 barrel with a throat short enough to drive a 77 gr bullet back into a case or stick it in the lands when there are Avogadro’s number of 5.56 rounds out there that will chamber in that gun. You are welcome to disagree because this is America. I am still quite comfortable letting my daughter shoot a few hundred rounds out of my 223 Tikka in an afternoon and will continue to do so.

 

[CHSD]

I know nothing about chambers or how they rate pressure. Do they use a different type of metal? I am not sure. I just wonder if they are really using different specs for basically the same action on their Gen 2 ranch-556 and the others that is 223. Are they really changing things out for the 223?

 

[BREAKCONTACT]

I interpret that to be saying their ".223" chambers are actually spec'd to 5.56.

Not the same thing.



Then its not a .223




I googled "rifle blows up 5.56 in 223" and this was the third result in the search. Its not that hard, folks.

https://www.rugerforum.net/threads/223-explode-from-5-56-ammo.398423/

This one was about 7th or 8th:

Bad results firing 5.56 Nato in a .223 rifle

Interesting article in this month American Gunsmith magazine. As most of us have long known, firing 5.56 Nato in a rifle chambered for .223 is a terrible idea. Evidently this gunsmith's client did not know this. The rifle arrived at the gunsmith with the bolt stuck. The owner said they were...

www.practicalmachinist.com

That is the primary concern I would have.

Did you even read that forum?

 

[ElPollo]

This article is as good of a resource as I’ve been able to find on 223 vs 5.56. Not just a random person on the internet and they actually collected real data.

5.56 vs .223 - What You Know May Be Wrong - LuckyGunner.com Labs

Andrew of Lucky Gunner Labs explores the differences between .223 Remington and 5.56mm NATO ammunition - and the results may surprise you!

www.luckygunner.com

 

[t_carlson]

Doesn't sound like any minds will change on this thread.

I only have one last thought: why wouldn't you just buy a 5.56 if that is ammo you want to shoot? I just don't understand the "logic" of people, but I guess human beings are not necessarily logical.

Good luck, boys.

 

[ElPollo]

Doesn't sound like any minds will change on this thread.

I only have one last thought: why wouldn't you just buy a 5.56 if that is ammo you want to shoot? I just don't understand the "logic" of people, but I guess human beings are not necessarily logical.

Good luck, boys.

You don’t have to listen to me or even like me, but reading the article might be worth your time.

 

[BREAKCONTACT]

One less in the market for cheap training ammo is no sweat off my back.

 

[BLJ]

Doesn't sound like any minds will change on this thread.

I only have one last thought: why wouldn't you just buy a 5.56 if that is ammo you want to shoot? I just don't understand the "logic" of people, but I guess human beings are not necessarily logical.

Good luck, boys.

The Gen 2 RA 5.56 are only offered in the Ranch model with the 16” barrel.
The Standard and Predator are offered in .223 and have 20” and 22” barrels, respectively.
Possibly wanting the longer barrel for more velocity, but they are only available in .223.
Just a guess. No dog in the fight.

 

[Bowfinn]

This article is as good of a resource as I’ve been able to find on 223 vs 5.56. Not just a random person on the internet and they actually collected real data.

5.56 vs .223 - What You Know May Be Wrong - LuckyGunner.com Labs

Andrew of Lucky Gunner Labs explores the differences between .223 Remington and 5.56mm NATO ammunition - and the results may surprise you!

www.luckygunner.com

Interesting that one of the 5.56 chambers actually had higher pressures than the 223 chamber with 5.56 ammo.

 

[ShortMountain91]

I'm nearing 1k rounds of 5.56 out of my .223 marked RA Gen 2 using mixed ammo including several hundred 77 grain offerings.
Zero issues or pressure signs.
All shooting has been done suppressed.
In fact I had to go grab the rifle out of the safe to see if it was roll marked 223 or 556. Lol.
Never gave it any thought.
You should be fine.
With the cheapest 77 grain ammo I could find in bulk (forgot the brand) I was still getting very repeatable 1 to 1.25" 5 shot groups.

Thank you for answering the question!

 

[Fatcamp]

Most accurate bolt gun is a Steven's 200 in .223. Ridiculously straight shooting but when used with 5.56 the bolt lift effort increased dramatically. No other issues but seemed like a clue so I don't do it.

 

[xsn10s]

This article is as good of a resource as I’ve been able to find on 223 vs 5.56. Not just a random person on the internet and they actually collected real data.

5.56 vs .223 - What You Know May Be Wrong - LuckyGunner.com Labs

Andrew of Lucky Gunner Labs explores the differences between .223 Remington and 5.56mm NATO ammunition - and the results may surprise you!

www.luckygunner.com

Yup or the OP could just call Ruger. Get it from the source lol. I can't recall a factory rifle I've had that had a short throat. The Weatherby Vanguard Obsidian .223 Rem I just purchased is throated long. So long that I'd have to seat 75gr ELDM's well over 2.500" to touch the lands.

 

[ShortMountain91]

Yup or the OP could just call Ruger. Get it from the source lol. I can't recall a factory rifle I've had that had a short throat. The Weatherby Vanguard Obsidian .223 Rem I just purchased is throated long. So long that I'd have to seat 75gr ELDM's well over 2.500" to touch the lands.

I did call Ruger but as expected they gave me the standard "We don't recommend firing 5.56 in a 223". They also wouldn't give me any chamber dimensions or what they pressure test the chamber to either.

 

[Bowfinn]

I did call Ruger but as expected they gave me the standard "We don't recommend firing 5.56 in a 223". They also wouldn't give me any chamber dimensions or what they pressure test the chamber to either.

Couldn’t you put sharpie on one of your bullets and chamber it to check for contact with the lands? It seems like extending the throat is little bit is a very easy way to reduce a potential issue when it’s guaranteed that someone is going to shoot 5.56 in a 223 rem.

 

[xsn10s]

Couldn’t you put sharpie on one of your bullets and chamber it to check for contact with the lands? It seems like extending the throat is little bit is a very easy way to reduce a potential issue when it’s guaranteed that someone is going to shoot 5.56 in a 223 rem.

Yup there's plenty of easy ways to check the distance to the lands. I did it with a sharpie when I didn't have a Hornady OAL gauge.

 

[zdc1775]

@ShortMountain91 took the RA gen 2 223 standard out today to shoot with the Black Hills 77 TMK. 10 round group at 100 was a bit under 1" and a 20 round group at 200 was just over 2" with most of that being horizontal shift when the wind started gusting at 15 mph.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Doesn't sound like any minds will change on this thread.

I only have one last thought: why wouldn't you just buy a 5.56 if that is ammo you want to shoot? I just don't understand the "logic" of people, but I guess human beings are not necessarily logical.

Good luck, boys.

Your terrible analogies and complete lack of knowledge on this subject is glaring.

Why do folks come into threads insisting their “opinions” or “feelings” on a subject are fact.

You were asked to site a legitimate source, of which you provided nothing to substantiate your feelings on this subject. You were then provided information that rejects and invalidates your opinion/feelings, and then resort to, “I’m still not changing my mind, good luck”.

The internet is a weird place man.

 

[amassi]

Doesn't sound like any minds will change on this thread.

I only have one last thought: why wouldn't you just buy a 5.56 if that is ammo you want to shoot? I just don't understand the "logic" of people, but I guess human beings are not necessarily logical.

Good luck, boys.

223 Wylde
Best of both worlds


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ShortMountain91]

@ShortMountain91 took the RA gen 2 223 standard out today to shoot with the Black Hills 77 TMK. 10 round group at 100 was a bit under 1" and a 20 round group at 200 was just over 2" with most of that being horizontal shift when the wind started gusting at 15 mph.

That's great! And I assume all went well? No sticky bolts, bulging primers, etc.?