Binoculars with blackouts or kidney beaning?

[m477]

Have you experienced blackouts or kidney beaning with a binocular? If so, which make and model was the binocular, and were you wearing glasses or not?

 

[Maverick1]

Yes. Zeiss conquest. Without eyeglasses. Zeiss sent replacement eyecups which were longer at no charge. Issue still existed. Returned binoculars to the store.

 

[m477]

Yes. Zeiss conquest. Without eyeglasses. Zeiss sent replacement eyecups which were longer at no charge. Issue still existed. Returned binoculars to the store.

Which model(s) in the Conquest series did you experience this with?

 

[Maverick1]

Which model(s) in the Conquest series did you experience this with?

8x42. It was most unfortunate as I really liked the glass and wanted to make they work for me. It wasn’t to be. I have used several binoculars over the years from a variety of manufacturers and never experienced the kidneybean issue before or since. When I held them juuuuusst right the issue wasn’t there. But if I casually put them up to the eye like you would in a normal use situation it was there, instantly noticeable, and quite disappointing.

 

[Kenn]

Not all people are going to experience blackouts and kidney beans the same. Don't eliminate a binocular because one person had that experience. My Zeiss SF's had them initially until I adjusted them correctly and now they are perfect.

 

[m477]

8x42. It was most unfortunate as I really liked the glass and wanted to make they work for me. It wasn’t to be. I have used several binoculars over the years from a variety of manufacturers and never experienced the kidneybean issue before or since. When I held them juuuuusst right the issue wasn’t there. But if I casually put them up to the eye like you would in a normal use situation it was there, instantly noticeable, and quite disappointing.

Thanks. That is exactly what I’m trying to avoid. Which models have you used that are easy to get behind (minimal or no kidney bean issues)?

 

[m477]

Not all people are going to experience blackouts and kidney beans the same. Don't eliminate a binocular because one person had that experience. My Zeiss SF's had them initially until I adjusted them correctly and now they are perfect.

Understood. However it sounds like a lot of people have had this issue with the Conquest HDs. I’m trying to narrow down the available models because I don’t think there are any stores nearby where I could try them in person.

 

[Maverick1]

Thanks. That is exactly what I’m trying to avoid. Which models have you used that are easy to get behind (minimal or no kidney bean issues)?

Well, about the only thing I can say is the Zeiss were the only ones that had the issue - for me. (Everybody's eyes are different.)

But, to answer your question - I have not had any issues with binoculars I've owned (Vortex, Swarovski, NIkon, Kahles) - and I have not had any issues with binoculars I've picked up in the store to fondle (Cabelas/Meopta, Bushnell, Leupold, maybe more?). The Zeiss just stood out right away as having an issue. (Some of the others have been more usable for IP distance and eyecup length, but none of them had the blackout/kidney bean issue.)

You mentioned above that you are not close to a store - just order up a pair from your favorite online retailer and return them if you don't like them (check their return policy first). That would only cost you the shipping charges back to the online merchant once, worst case, maybe $15-$20 in shipping charges. You'll know within putting them up to your eyes two or three times if you are going to have an issue.

 

[Mojave]

What you are talking about is the eye relief.

If you are near sighted and wear glasses you need around 19-23mm of actual eye relief. Measured between your eye ball and the lens of the binos.

 

[m477]

What you are talking about is the eye relief.

If you are near sighted and wear glasses you need around 19-23mm of actual eye relief. Measured between your eye ball and the lens of the binos.

I know that the manufacturer’s specified eye relief is not always accurate. Is there a way to determine the actual eye relief, other than trying the binoculars in person?

 

[m477]

You mentioned above that you are not close to a store - just order up a pair from your favorite online retailer and return them if you don't like them (check their return policy first). That would only cost you the shipping charges back to the online merchant once, worst case, maybe $15-$20 in shipping charges. You'll know within putting them up to your eyes two or three times if you are going to have an issue.

Thanks. I’ll try that. Can you recommend a trustworthy vendor with good customer service? I see the forums have a bunch of sponsors but I’m not familiar with any of them.

 

[Maverick1]

Thanks. I’ll try that. Can you recommend a trustworthy vendor with good customer service? I see the forums have a bunch of sponsors but I’m not familiar with any of them.

Sure, EuroOptic, CameralandNY. Give Doug or Joel @Camera Land a call, 516-217-1000, see what he can do for you - tell them you are from Rokslide - they are a sponsor here.

Europoptic-New

Europoptic - Like New

Camera Land NY

 

[Mojave]

I think the term in the optics industry is vignetting. I don't know why, but they all seem to call it that.

Here are the recommended near sighted must wear glasses from my own experience.

Swarovski EL's 10x50, 8.5 as well both are immersive.
Swarovski EL Range 8x42 I have the tracking assistant range finder model.

You can try the Swarovski NL's but even the 8x42 kind of sucks for our demographic. Just not enough eye relief.

https://www.eurooptic.com/Like-New-Zeiss-Conquest-8x42-HD-Binoculars-524211-0000-000.aspx these will be very marginal. 18 is not enough.
It is fairly safe to say that all 8x56 will work, 8x50's and 8x42's mostly work. 7x42's generally all work. 10x50's can work, but may not. 10x42's will absolutely not work without vignetting. 10x56's work, usually 12x56, 15x56 and 18x56 work beautifully.

Any 36, 30, 24mm objectives will not work.

10x42's are really annoying, I feel as though that is a sweet spot and a good place to be. But no one makes a 10x42 with good enough eye relief to work.

The Swarovski 10x50 EL works very well. I don't remember seeing or trying a 10x56 SLC.

Bushnell's 8x42, and 18x56 Forge's are really good. I also have the 10x42's and they are ok. But not great. My wife and kids use those ones.

Call Doug and CameralandNY and ask him. He will give you a couple of other long eye relief options.

Kowa has a couple really awesome ones, they are mostly big 56mm jobs. Their 8.5x44 is no longer long eye relief.

This guy has some information on the topic, but his linked binos aren't what you want.

Long Eye Relief Binoculars | Best Binoculars for Glasses

Guide to & Reviews of long eye relief binoculars for glasses or those who wear eyeglasses. Includes everything about eye relief and includes reviews on the best and where to buy them

www.bestbinocularsreviews.com

So to recap. 7x42, 8x42, 8x50, 8x56, 10x56, usually all good.

10x50, 12x56, 15x56, 18x56 mostly good.

7x30, 8x30, 10x42, 10x30, and other small objective binoculars never work.

 

[m477]

So to recap. 7x42, 8x42, 8x50, 8x56, 10x56, usually all good.

10x50, 12x56, 15x56, 18x56 mostly good.

7x30, 8x30, 10x42, 10x30, and other small objective binoculars never work.

Thank you, this is awesome.
It sounds like most binoculars with an exit pupil of 5mm or more will be ok, and models with less than 5mm are increasingly likely to be problematic regarding blackouts.

 

[m477]

Well, about the only thing I can say is the Zeiss were the only ones that had the issue - for me. (Everybody's eyes are different.)

Have you used the Conquest HD 8x32? Did you have the same issue with that model?

 

[Mojave]

Thank you, this is awesome.
It sounds like most binoculars with an exit pupil of 5mm or more will be ok, and models with less than 5mm are increasingly likely to be problematic regarding blackouts.

Eye relief is the only measurement you are concerned with. Exit pupil may lead you astray.

 

[rlynn27]

A lot of the binoculars which were otherwise perfect for me just didn't work because I'd get the dreaded blackouts, usually from too little eye-relief or being unable to find the sweet spot to avoid it. Leica Noctivid 8x42 were the best view through a binocular I've ever seen, but eye placement was fussy for me. Same with Nikon SE 8x32, Zeiss Conquests. I'm tempted to try the 10x42 Noctivids which are the same ER as the 8x42, maybe not as fussy.