Biden announces proposed gun control measures

[brocksw]

That may be, and I could say the same thing about cars and be equally correct in our concern for our own, or the safety of others. But that doesn't mean that the government has the constitutional right to violate the 2A. The Constitution is the foundation and basis for all decision making by our government officials. It tells them what they can and can't do, yet they still ignore it.........hence the need for the SCOTUS. However, even the SCOTUS has been ignoring the foundation of the Constitution. Just because some people fear certain guns, or what those guns can be illegally used for, is never a good reason to violate the Constitution.

Yeah, but even the constitution was created by men. Rich men in power I might add. Hell the first senate wasn't even elected, it was appointed. There wasn't much equality or democracy involved.

James Madison - 1787
"In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place. If these observations be just, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability."

Madison came right out and said it. The rich and powerful (opulant) need to be protected from the majority (the rest of us). The Senate should be the body that ensures that.

Everyone and everything created by man has a Bias. Nothing is perfect, nothing is above questioning.

 

[5MilesBack]

Folks wanting to change the opinions of others should make more emotional arguments if they want to be effective.

Emotional arguments are worthless in an attempt to sway logical thinking folks, and logical arguments seem to be worthless in any attempts to sway emotional thinking folks.........hence why we have half the country at odds with the other half all the time. But at least sticking to logic and reason makes the most sense to me, regardless whether they understand it or not. Running a country on emotions is a recipe for disaster IMO.

 

[204guy]

These threads are a great litmus test to bring out our resident liberals.

Even better there's been not 1 but 2 BHA state chairman particating in this thread.

 

[brocksw]

Emotional arguments are worthless in an attempt to sway logical thinking folks, and logical arguments seem to be worthless in any attempts to sway emotional thinking folks.........hence why we have half the country at odds with the other half all the time. But at least sticking to logic and reason makes the most sense to me, regardless whether they understand it or not. Running a country on emotions is a recipe for disaster IMO.

Maybe, a strong argument could be made that some of the most tyrannical and murderous leaders in the world's history were extremely calculated, logical, and well organized.

 

[5MilesBack]

Everyone and everything created by man has a Bias. Nothing is perfect, nothing is above questioning.

Ya, except "this nation"........the United States of America was founded and structured by these men, as they saw fit to structure "this nation". Yet it seems that every Tom, Dick, and Harry wants to change that. They want to change "this nation" into what every other craphole country around the globe already is. WHY? Leave "this nation" alone as it was founded and intended to be. If people don't like that, there are plenty of other nations out there that will appeal to them. Why do they have to ruin "this nation" too?

 

[Hoodie]

Other than Miller, I don’t think a challenge to NFA has been made (especially concerning suppressors and mg)... or if it has, it wasn’t accepted by SCOTUS.

I meant that I personally don´t see the practical need for extensive regulation and/or bureaucratic red tape regarding suppressors, whereas I might for heavy machine guns, RPGs, or mortars. Regulating the latter seems more reasonable than the former.

I think people seriously concerned about suppressors are likely to call them ¨silencers¨, probably picked up most of what they know about them from James Bond movies, and almost certainly don´t have an accurate idea of how they make a firearm sound, particularly with supersonic ammo.

 

[william schmaltz]

So sooner or later Australia...with no guns will succomb to tyranny because of this firearms infringement?

The USA has been a refuge for freedom-seeking individuals since it's inception. To compare potential outcomes due to the restrictions of rights in the USA with any other country is a waste of everyone's time.

 

[brocksw]

Ya, except "this nation"........the United States of America was founded and structured by these men, as they saw fit to structure "this nation". Yet it seems that every Tom, Dick, and Harry wants to change that. They want to change "this nation" into what every other craphole country around the globe already is. WHY? Leave "this nation" alone as it was founded and intended to be. If people don't like that, there are plenty of other nations out there that will appeal to them. Why do they have to ruin "this nation" too?

I will certainly agree the founding fathers did some damn fine work. Wasn't perfect, didn't all come at once, but it turned out to be other level genius.

 

[5MilesBack]

Maybe, a strong argument could be made that some of the most tyrannical and murderous leaders in the world's history were extremely calculated, logical, and well organized.

There's nothing wrong at all with calculated, logical, and well organized. Some of the most useless people I've ever met were emotional train wrecks.

 

[brocksw]

The USA has been a refuge for freedom-seeking individuals since it's inception. To compare potential outcomes due to the restrictions of rights in the USA with any other country is a waste of everyone's time.

I'd say its totally relevant. If you say any infringement on the 2a is tyranny and then I give you a country that has literally had the equivalent of the 2a removed and they are no more tyrannical than the US. Then my argument its absolutely relevant.

 

[brocksw]

There's nothing wrong at all with calculated, logical, and well organized. Some of the most useless people I've ever met were emotional train wrecks.

Haha. The Nazi's were conservationist.... but that doesn't mean we should be against conservation right?

Can't take all the emotion out of it. Otherwise there is literally nothing separating you from a psychopath.

 

[william schmaltz]

I'd say its totally relevant. If you say any infringement on the 2a is tyranny and then I give you a country that has literally had the equivalent of the 2a removed and they are no more tyrannical than the US. Then my argument its absolutely relevant.

At this point, I should not be surprised in your inability to comprehend or decision to not acknowledge what I actually said. America is a country built on freedom-seeking refugees. Unlike any other country. The outcomes of taking away freedoms or the government's intentions of taking said freedoms in any other country compared to the US is indeed irrelevant.

As a former North Dakotan with deep ties to protecting the badlands, your behavior on this forum the last couple months is disappointing. It is in alignment with why all of my friends with similar land conservation views remaining in the area have turned up their nose at BHA.

 

[Hoodie]

Ya, except "this nation"........the United States of America was founded and structured by these men, as they saw fit to structure "this nation". Yet it seems that every Tom, Dick, and Harry wants to change that. They want to change "this nation" into what every other craphole country around the globe already is. WHY? Leave "this nation" alone as it was founded and intended to be. If people don't like that, there are plenty of other nations out there that will appeal to them. Why do they have to ruin "this nation" too?

The men who founded this nation initially forgot to throw in the right to not be the property of another human being. They also forgot to throw in the right to vote regardless of your race or gender. Those were fairly large oversights for a nation founded on the principle of liberty.

Those two amendments came 76 and 80 years after the 2A, respectively. Franklin, Henry, and Hamilton had been in the dirt for quite some time before we got around to making those corrections.

The founding fathers did a bang-up job on the constitution, but if we´d left it exactly as it was founded, we´d have made some very serious mistakes.

This isn´t meant to say anything one way or the other on gun legislation. You and I probably pretty much agree on that. It´s just to illustrate that we´ve been making changes basically since the inception of this country. That´s why I don´t like to just point at the 2A and talk about the wisdom of the founding fathers. The 2A is important and the founding fathers were wise. Stuff has still needed to change over time, so I think it´s worth arguing in favor of the 2A in terms of data in modern America.

 

[brocksw]

At this point, I should not be surprised in your inability to comprehend or decision to not acknowledge what I actually said. America is a country built on freedom-seeking refugees. Unlike any other country. The outcomes of taking away freedoms or the government's intentions of taking said freedoms in any other country compared to the US is indeed irrelevant.

As a former North Dakotan with deep ties to protecting the badlands, your behavior on this forum the last couple months is disappointing. It is in alignment with why all of my friends with similar land conservation views remaining in the area have turned up their nose at BHA.

Ahh... I still say its relevant.

When people start calling BHA a "POS organization" and name calling people I've become friends with through BHA, not to mention driving people away based off conspiracy theories and paranoia. They and you shouldn't be so upset when someone decides to stand up and snap back. I'm sure you'll try to virtue signal and pretend like you'd never behave so reprehensibly or defend anything you believe in, but I don't need to listen to it today.

In the spirit of keeping this thread on subject. Feel free to PM me anytime to discuss whatever you'd like. Better yet, I'll PM you and start the conversation.

 

[5MilesBack]

Can't take all the emotion out of it. Otherwise there is literally nothing separating you from a psychopath.

Well of course not.........anger is an emotion, right? But beyond that I try to stick with logic.

I'm not sure that being a psychopath would be logical? So perhaps there's a few other things that makes that separation as well......like not being a mental nutjob to start with.

 

[spike camp]

Haha. The Nazi's were conservationist.... but that doesn't mean we should be against conservation right?

Can't take all the emotion out of it. Otherwise there is literally nothing separating you from a psychopath.

BINGO!!

 

[Beendare]

We Hunters have always tried to stay out of politics....the problem is...everything is political.

if all of the law abiding gun owners in our country just spoke up ...we would blow this out of the water.

The problem is: apathy runs high in the hunting community.


——-

 

[orionthehunter1]

I'd say its totally relevant. If you say any infringement on the 2a is tyranny and then I give you a country that has literally had the equivalent of the 2a removed and they are no more tyrannical than the US. Then my argument its absolutely relevant.

Give up on the Australia comparison. Even the guy from Australia posted that we should never become like them. If you want to give up your rights move there or to Europe.

 

[Buffinnut]

If you are afraid of your neighbor having RPGs or heavy machine guns or any other "weapon of war" that is your own problem.

Your fear has no place in what an American citizen can or can't possess.

If he/she uses it to harm you or damage your property they should be held accountable to the full extent of the law.

Anything above that is tyranny. Period.

 

[brocksw]

Give up on the Australia comparison. Even the guy from Australia posted that we should never become like them. If you want to give up your rights move there or to Europe.

1st, I really don't have to give up any comparison. 2nd, I never stated I wanted to give up any rights (but of course this some how always seems to happen to anyone who doesn't fall in line with the "real freedom lovers". 3rd, I happen to love this country quite a bit. Don't have any plans on moving anywhere.

This is devolving quickly.