Best Mono Bullet for Hunting/Effective Kills

[DagOtto]

Yesterday I shot another animal with my 6.5 Creedmore and non-lead ammo. This time it was the 135 Grain DRT bullet, shooting their factory load. Muzzle velocity of @2600 FPS.

White tail doe presented herself right at dusk. Shot was 165 yards. Once again, I'm not super proud of my shooting as my shot was forward and high @ 6". I shot sitting/unsupported though, so understandable.
Impact velocity calcs to right around 2350.

Bullet entered in the left scapula, and exited right scapula leaving a 2.5" dia exit wound on the way out. It was a bang flop with the damage to spine and CNS devastating. Heart was intact and lungs appeared pretty good as well although it was getting dark so I wasn't super thorough in my necropsy.

I think the notable take-away from this less than ideal shot placement is the size of the wound channel that was created in such a thin part of the animal. Clearly, the bullet expands drastically.

DO

 

[WKR]

Anyone try the apex afterburners? I have a few boxes of the 7mm that I need to do load dev on incase I draw a good California tag one of these years.
The BC is supposed to be really good on them and since they are kinda light for caliber I could probably push them fast enough for some longer shots out of a 20" prc

 

[DagOtto]

Here is a quick report from recent kills with copper bullets.

On opening weekend my hunting partner shot a mature cow elk. 300 win mag, 180 grain Barnes TTSX factory load. Impact velocity around 2770. She was perfectly broadside at 80 yards and shot was perfect, just behind right shoulder blade.

She ran downhill (out of site) about 150 yards before collapsing. I did not take necropsy photos (sorry,) but the bullet entered through a rib tearing a few chunks of ribs off. The heart and lungs were fully blendered with very little in terms of solid tissue left. Exit wound was .75" and bled very little.

 

[DagOtto]

And last real-world terminal ballistic report for now:

This one is from a friend who was in Canada hunting Moose and Caribou in September.

On the third day of their hunt he shot a bull caribou with his .338 Win Mag using Barnes LRX 250 grain bullets with a muzzle velocity of @2660. The animal was at 330 yards.

He shot the bull 4 times before it was incapacitated and it traveled 200 plus yards. While he and the guides didn't take any necropsy photos they did recover 3 or 4 of the bullets (I can't remember which) My friend reported that all of the bullets looked the the photo he sent me (attached.)

My amateur analysis is that with such a relatively slow muzzle velocity his bullets were down to somewhere close to 2150 upon impact. And it seems that such a large bullet going that slow really didn't expand at all. He reported that this scared him so much that had he seen a shootable moose he was planning on using the guides gun instead of his own.

 

[AZ_Hunter]

Cavity Back also makes monos that expand at low velocities. I have killed a bull with the 120gr MKZ out of a 6.8 SPC.

 

[z987k]

Anyone try the apex afterburners? I have a few boxes of the 7mm that I need to do load dev on incase I draw a good California tag one of these years.
The BC is supposed to be really good on them and since they are kinda light for caliber I could probably push them fast enough for some longer shots out of a 20" prc

Ive got some loaded but haven't had the chance to hunt with then yet.

 

[BCsteve]

And last real-world terminal ballistic report for now:

This one is from a friend who was in Canada hunting Moose and Caribou in September.

On the third day of their hunt he shot a bull caribou with his .338 Win Mag using Barnes LRX 250 grain bullets with a muzzle velocity of @2660. The animal was at 330 yards.

He shot the bull 4 times before it was incapacitated and it traveled 200 plus yards. While he and the guides didn't take any necropsy photos they did recover 3 or 4 of the bullets (I can't remember which) My friend reported that all of the bullets looked the the photo he sent me (attached.)

My amateur analysis is that with such a relatively slow muzzle velocity his bullets were down to somewhere close to 2150 upon impact. And it seems that such a large bullet going that slow really didn't expand at all. He reported that this scared him so much that had he seen a shootable moose he was planning on using the guides gun instead of his own.

Actually, it looks like the front expanded and the petals broke off. Thats how the two 175GR LRX recovered from my moose this year look like.

 

[z987k]

And last real-world terminal ballistic report for now:

This one is from a friend who was in Canada hunting Moose and Caribou in September.

On the third day of their hunt he shot a bull caribou with his .338 Win Mag using Barnes LRX 250 grain bullets with a muzzle velocity of @2660. The animal was at 330 yards.

He shot the bull 4 times before it was incapacitated and it traveled 200 plus yards. While he and the guides didn't take any necropsy photos they did recover 3 or 4 of the bullets (I can't remember which) My friend reported that all of the bullets looked the the photo he sent me (attached.)

My amateur analysis is that with such a relatively slow muzzle velocity his bullets were down to somewhere close to 2150 upon impact. And it seems that such a large bullet going that slow really didn't expand at all. He reported that this scared him so much that had he seen a shootable moose he was planning on using the guides gun instead of his own.

Looks like it shed the petals. Usually that's from too much velocity.
His experience is mostly in line with my expanding mono experience.

 

[DagOtto]

UPDATED SUMMARY OF NON LEAD BULLET OPTIONS AVAILABLE IN NORTH AMERICA

The Big Boys:

All of these major brand monos operate with the same basic mechanistic goal of opening to a minimum of 1.5 times the caliber size with a mushroom peeling back from the tip creating larger than caliber wounding and deeper penetration that lead cup and core bullets. Different bullets have different characteristics and performance issues so one should not assume they are "all the same." Test and verify.

Hornady CX (2000 fps manufacturers recommended minimum impact velocity)
Federal Trophy Copper (made by Nosler) (1800 fps mrmiv)
Nosler E-Tip (1900 fps mrmiv)
Winchester Copper Impact (2200 fps?)
Barnes TTSX (1800 fps mrmiv)
Barnes LRX (1600 fps mrmiv)

Note that due to the relative smaller diameter of the expanded bullets as compared to traditional lead bullets these mono metal bullets will generally tend to create smaller wound cavities and slightly longer times to incapacitation. These drawbacks are somewhat counterbalanced by less meat loss, slightly deeper penetration for off angle shots and more reliable exit wound/ bleeding for tracking. Also note that these bullets generally need to impact animals at higher speeds to maximize mushroom and wound channels. Note that many experienced users suggest that hunters should really aim for around 200 fps higher than these minimums for reliable performance. A lot of people recommend using 2000 fps as a safe minimum while another sizable crowd suggests using 2200 fps. Therefore, there is general agreement among many experienced users that one should use a lighter and faster for caliber bullet than as compared to lead.

The Frangible

This "group" is only represented by one bullet in the US market. although there is another available only in Europe. (Evo Green)

DRT- compressed frangible bullet. Form says they are the closest to the lead bullets that are known to make massive wound channels (ELDM, ELDX etc) They do offer some limited factory loads, but availability and reliability of these have most folks online say you really need to load your own.

The Petal Shedders

This group of bullets are all produced by smaller manufacturers and all share the general goal of building bullets that "shed" multiple pellets of copper from the nose area of the bullet as expansion progresses. It is claimed by many that these bullets create more permanent wound cavity as a result of the petals flying off through the animal in different directions, AND that the remaining solid core bullet creates more reliable exit wounding/ blood trail because of it's un-expanded shape penetrating better than a mushroomed bullet.

Note that field data and ballistic gel data are no as robust or available as for the above major manufacturer bullets. More data is needed to confirm or deny performance.

Hammer Bullets- HHT (Tipped), Hunter, Absolute and Stone) Weatherby loads some limited calibers as does gun werks and Pendelton

Lehigh Defense bullets- another petal shedder with multiple bullet offerings and some factory loads.

Controlled Lazer, Chaos, Xtreme Chaos and Maximum Expansion all available in tipped or no. I’ve ordered factory loads from Lehigh Defense as well as Gorilla.

Cutting Edge - Maximus and Raptor- another petal shedder. I’ve ordered factory loads directly from them.

Nielsen Sonic- stub nosed brass bullet that is supposed to shed 4 petals

Maker- Rex and tipped Rex- looks like these are designed to expand up to 3x caliber but not shed.

Cavity Back Bullets- these bullets have a hollow at the end of the bullet. Not sure what their terminal ballistic performance or goal is.

Apex Outdoors- Afterburner - these bullets boast a large hollow point with an aluminium

Traditional Copper Performer

Macquire Ballistics- looks like their bullet is designed like the Big Boys bullets to open up and mushroom. Not sure of any details.


NOT AVAILABLE IN North Americal?

Norma Evo Green- similar compressed powder frangible bullet to DRT-

Fox Bullets Classic Hunter - ??? Europe Only?

Yew Tree Field sports-??? Europe only?

Bulldozer Bullets- Owner passed away and company appears to be closed.

 

[fj40rob]

And last real-world terminal ballistic report for now:

This one is from a friend who was in Canada hunting Moose and Caribou in September.

On the third day of their hunt he shot a bull caribou with his .338 Win Mag using Barnes LRX 250 grain bullets with a muzzle velocity of @2660. The animal was at 330 yards.

He shot the bull 4 times before it was incapacitated and it traveled 200 plus yards. While he and the guides didn't take any necropsy photos they did recover 3 or 4 of the bullets (I can't remember which) My friend reported that all of the bullets looked the the photo he sent me (attached.)

My amateur analysis is that with such a relatively slow muzzle velocity his bullets were down to somewhere close to 2150 upon impact. And it seems that such a large bullet going that slow really didn't expand at all. He reported that this scared him so much that had he seen a shootable moose he was planning on using the guides gun instead of his own.

Thanks for the info. I have not shot LRX in 338wm, but regular 210 ttsx (2887fps) has been a reliable moose killer at every range between 100-450yds. Many bulls just take a bullet and drt, but occasionally the bull needs 1-2 more to immediately drop. That is with 15+ bulls.We have killed more, but they were with 7mm-08, 308, 3006, 300wm. All copper (CX, GMX, ttsx). No issues either.

 

[SDHNTR]

UPDATED SUMMARY OF NON LEAD BULLET OPTIONS AVAILABLE IN NORTH AMERICA

The Big Boys:

All of these major brand monos operate with the same basic mechanistic goal of opening to a minimum of 1.5 times the caliber size with a mushroom peeling back from the tip creating larger than caliber wounding and deeper penetration that lead cup and core bullets. Different bullets have different characteristics and performance issues so one should not assume they are "all the same." Test and verify.

Hornady CX (2000 fps manufacturers recommended minimum impact velocity)
Federal Trophy Copper (made by Nosler) (1800 fps mrmiv)
Nosler E-Tip (1900 fps mrmiv)
Winchester Copper Impact (2200 fps?)
Barnes TTSX (1800 fps mrmiv)
Barnes LRX (1600 fps mrmiv)

Note that due to the relative smaller diameter of the expanded bullets as compared to traditional lead bullets these mono metal bullets will generally tend to create smaller wound cavities and slightly longer times to incapacitation. These drawbacks are somewhat counterbalanced by less meat loss, slightly deeper penetration for off angle shots and more reliable exit wound/ bleeding for tracking. Also note that these bullets generally need to impact animals at higher speeds to maximize mushroom and wound channels. Note that many experienced users suggest that hunters should really aim for around 200 fps higher than these minimums for reliable performance. A lot of people recommend using 2000 fps as a safe minimum while another sizable crowd suggests using 2200 fps. Therefore, there is general agreement among many experienced users that one should use a lighter and faster for caliber bullet than as compared to lead.

The Frangible

This "group" is only represented by one bullet in the US market. although there is another available only in Europe. (Evo Green)

DRT- compressed frangible bullet. Form says they are the closest to the lead bullets that are known to make massive wound channels (ELDM, ELDX etc) They do offer some limited factory loads, but availability and reliability of these have most folks online say you really need to load your own.

The Petal Shedders

This group of bullets are all produced by smaller manufacturers and all share the general goal of building bullets that "shed" multiple pellets of copper from the nose area of the bullet as expansion progresses. It is claimed by many that these bullets create more permanent wound cavity as a result of the petals flying off through the animal in different directions, AND that the remaining solid core bullet creates more reliable exit wounding/ blood trail because of it's un-expanded shape penetrating better than a mushroomed bullet.

Note that field data and ballistic gel data are no as robust or available as for the above major manufacturer bullets. More data is needed to confirm or deny performance.

Hammer Bullets- HHT (Tipped), Hunter, Absolute and Stone) Weatherby loads some limited calibers as does gun werks and Pendelton

Lehigh Defense bullets- another petal shedder with multiple bullet offerings and some factory loads.

Controlled Lazer, Chaos, Xtreme Chaos and Maximum Expansion all available in tipped or no. I’ve ordered factory loads from Lehigh Defense as well as Gorilla.

Cutting Edge - Maximus and Raptor- another petal shedder. I’ve ordered factory loads directly from them.

Nielsen Sonic- stub nosed brass bullet that is supposed to shed 4 petals

Maker- Rex and tipped Rex- looks like these are designed to expand up to 3x caliber but not shed.

Cavity Back Bullets- these bullets have a hollow at the end of the bullet. Not sure what their terminal ballistic performance or goal is.

Apex Outdoors- Afterburner - these bullets boast a large hollow point with an aluminium

Traditional Copper Performer

Macquire Ballistics- looks like their bullet is designed like the Big Boys bullets to open up and mushroom. Not sure of any details.


NOT AVAILABLE IN North Americal?

Norma Evo Green- similar compressed powder frangible bullet to DRT-

Fox Bullets Classic Hunter - ??? Europe Only?

Yew Tree Field sports-??? Europe only?

Bulldozer Bullets- Owner passed away and company appears to be closed.

Wow. Impressive research. But don’t believe the marketing. Manufacturers stated minimum opening velocities are BS. Keep them all above 2-2200. I haven’t tried every bullet on that exhaustive list, but have with all of the major ones, and imo, they are essentially all the same. There isnt enough difference in construction to make a meaningful difference. Shoot the one that is most accurate in your gun so you can put it where it belongs and the results will all be the same, good.

 

[Unclecroc]

On hammertime forum and long range hunting there is extensive reports on hammer bullets with a lot of pictures for anyone interested in researching them specifically. Just look up hammer bullets terminal performance.

 

[Macintosh]

UPDATED SUMMARY OF NON LEAD BULLET OPTIONS AVAILABLE IN NORTH AMERICA

The Big Boys:

All of these major brand monos operate with the same basic mechanistic goal of opening to a minimum of 1.5 times the caliber size with a mushroom peeling back from the tip creating larger than caliber wounding and deeper penetration that lead cup and core bullets. Different bullets have different characteristics and performance issues so one should not assume they are "all the same." Test and verify.

Hornady CX (2000 fps manufacturers recommended minimum impact velocity)
Federal Trophy Copper (made by Nosler) (1800 fps mrmiv)
Nosler E-Tip (1900 fps mrmiv)
Winchester Copper Impact (2200 fps?)
Barnes TTSX (1800 fps mrmiv)
Barnes LRX (1600 fps mrmiv)

Note that due to the relative smaller diameter of the expanded bullets as compared to traditional lead bullets these mono metal bullets will generally tend to create smaller wound cavities and slightly longer times to incapacitation. These drawbacks are somewhat counterbalanced by less meat loss, slightly deeper penetration for off angle shots and more reliable exit wound/ bleeding for tracking. Also note that these bullets generally need to impact animals at higher speeds to maximize mushroom and wound channels. Note that many experienced users suggest that hunters should really aim for around 200 fps higher than these minimums for reliable performance. A lot of people recommend using 2000 fps as a safe minimum while another sizable crowd suggests using 2200 fps. Therefore, there is general agreement among many experienced users that one should use a lighter and faster for caliber bullet than as compared to lead.

The Frangible

This "group" is only represented by one bullet in the US market. although there is another available only in Europe. (Evo Green)

DRT- compressed frangible bullet. Form says they are the closest to the lead bullets that are known to make massive wound channels (ELDM, ELDX etc) They do offer some limited factory loads, but availability and reliability of these have most folks online say you really need to load your own.

The Petal Shedders

This group of bullets are all produced by smaller manufacturers and all share the general goal of building bullets that "shed" multiple pellets of copper from the nose area of the bullet as expansion progresses. It is claimed by many that these bullets create more permanent wound cavity as a result of the petals flying off through the animal in different directions, AND that the remaining solid core bullet creates more reliable exit wounding/ blood trail because of it's un-expanded shape penetrating better than a mushroomed bullet.

Note that field data and ballistic gel data are no as robust or available as for the above major manufacturer bullets. More data is needed to confirm or deny performance.

Hammer Bullets- HHT (Tipped), Hunter, Absolute and Stone) Weatherby loads some limited calibers as does gun werks and Pendelton

Lehigh Defense bullets- another petal shedder with multiple bullet offerings and some factory loads.

Controlled Lazer, Chaos, Xtreme Chaos and Maximum Expansion all available in tipped or no. I’ve ordered factory loads from Lehigh Defense as well as Gorilla.

Cutting Edge - Maximus and Raptor- another petal shedder. I’ve ordered factory loads directly from them.

Nielsen Sonic- stub nosed brass bullet that is supposed to shed 4 petals

Maker- Rex and tipped Rex- looks like these are designed to expand up to 3x caliber but not shed.

Cavity Back Bullets- these bullets have a hollow at the end of the bullet. Not sure what their terminal ballistic performance or goal is.

Apex Outdoors- Afterburner - these bullets boast a large hollow point with an aluminium

Traditional Copper Performer

Macquire Ballistics- looks like their bullet is designed like the Big Boys bullets to open up and mushroom. Not sure of any details.


NOT AVAILABLE IN North Americal?

Norma Evo Green- similar compressed powder frangible bullet to DRT-

Fox Bullets Classic Hunter - ??? Europe Only?

Yew Tree Field sports-??? Europe only?

Bulldozer Bullets- Owner passed away and company appears to be closed.

Second the research, this is good. The only quibble may or may not be minor though, is that Barnes does NOT recommend the same minimum inpact velocity for all bullets within a product line, ie TTSX, LRX, etc. They have different recommended minimum impact velocities for many different bullets within one family and even within a caliber. I also see some degree of inconsistency in what they say, AND they refuse to publish any if this. Frankly, I am happily using those bullets, but as a consumer I think they are doing a truly $hitty job of providing concrete info we can use and make somewhat objective decisions around. I have it in writing from barnes that they reccomend 2000fps minimum for their 150gr and 165gr .308 TTSX, 1600 for the 168gr .308, 1600 for the 127gr 6.5mm LRX, and 1400 for the .277 129gr LRX (where they specified 1.75x caliber diameter expansion). When I challenged them on the 1400fps claim they claimed that was indeed correct, so I do know that wasnt a typo.
The variability and lack of published info makes it all but impossible to be objective about it, and harder to take them seriously.

 

[DagOtto]

don’t believe the marketing. Manufacturers stated minimum opening velocities are BS. Keep them all above 2-2200. I haven’t tried every bullet on that exhaustive list, but have with all of the major ones, and imo, they are essentially all the same.

It seems to me that this is a key take away advice with the “major manufacturer” solid monos. Not sure where to draw the line but 2100-2200 seems like a good minimum to plan on.

Im very curious to see more about all the other “small shop,” options- it seems to be verified by multiple folks that DRT can create reliable wound channels at lower impact velocities. But the others seem to be a mixed bag.

Not sure if this guy has been part of the Rokslide conversation but I have found him to be another reliable fact-based terminal ballistic guy. His books are excellent resources. He seems to no longer be as involved in the world of long range rifles and ballistics but has shot many thousands of animals and documented bullet performance on all.

Effective Game Killing | Norma Academy

Nathan Foster From Terminal Ballistics Research Shares The Fundamentals Of Terminal Hunting Performance at Norma Academy. Learn More About Hunting Bullet Performance From A Globally Recognized Expert In Terminal Ballistics.

www.norma-ammunition.com

Dont get me wrong, I have decided to use non-lead bullets for several reasons. So I personally disagree with some of the conclusion regarding use of non copper and lead risks; but not with the evidence that got him to his conclusion. I find his approach to be reasonable and fact based.

 

[DagOtto]

Second the research, this is good. The only quibble may or may not be minor though, is that Barnes does NOT recommend the same minimum inpact velocity for all bullets within a product line, ie TTSX, LRX, etc. They have different recommended minimum impact velocities for many different bullets within one family and even within a caliber. I also see some degree of inconsistency in what they say, AND they refuse to publish any if this. Frankly, I am happily using those bullets, but as a consumer I think they are doing a truly $hitty job of providing concrete info we can use and make somewhat objective decisions around. I have it in writing from barnes that they reccomend 2000fps minimum for their 150gr and 165gr .308 TTSX, 1600 for the 168gr .308, 1600 for the 127gr 6.5mm LRX, and 1400 for the .277 129gr LRX (where they specified 1.75x caliber diameter expansion). When I challenged them on the 1400fps claim they claimed that was indeed correct, so I do know that wasnt a typo.
The variability and lack of published info makes it all but impossible to be objective about it, and harder to take them seriously.

Good info- I didnt know that there was variability in minimum recommended impact velocity between different calibers of the same bullet! That makes it even harder for a consumer to make wise decisions about caliber, velocity and distance! Thanks for this info.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

@DagOtto Your list didn't mention G9 Defense. Their Long Range Hunter series sheds brass petals. In my experience on two sheep last year, the terminal performance was awesome. The only reason I am not using them this year as I have moved from 6.5 down to 6 & 223, which they do not make a bullet in.

6.5 Creedmoor 113gr Long Range Hunter

G9 Defense | Innovation in Ammunition. Whether for hunting, self-defense, or duty, our patented designs ensure you are prepared for the most critical moments. Discover our External Hollow Point, Woodsman, and lead-free hunting lines, designed for superior performance and reliability. Trust G9...

g9defense.com

 

[SDHNTR]

DRT pisses me off. The biggest non-lead market in the country is of course California. Yet they won’t ship their bullets here. Just dumb.