Best dies (measurable data only)

[HighUintas]

I agree with many above statements about the higher cost does just having nice features that make repeatability and switching settings easier.

Functionally, they all produce ammo more accurate than you can likely shoot the difference of with a hunting gun.

The functional downside to Lee in my experience is that it sizes the neck and shoulder much more than necessary and it's a pain to clean the die because of the decap pin retention design. Otherwise, they're awesome for the money and produce extremely accurate ammo.

The last time I bought a FL die set (243), I called Redding, RCBS, Lee, Hornady, and Forster to see which one sized the neck and shoulders the least amount and that was Forster, at least for the 243.

You can also order a custom honed neck diameter FL die from Forster, or send them your standard Forster FL die to have them hone, which is another plus for Forster. I will likely buy more of their FL dies.

 

[Chris in TN]

Have you guys seen much benefit in more expensive sizing dies in terms of consistent shoulder bumps?

I’ve been annealing lately to try to help with shoulder bump consistency but my Lee do dies and breachlock press consistently fluctuates from 1 to 3 thou on shoulder bump. That is with me trying to be consistent on sizing pressure and dwell time at “cam over”


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My Lee dies are handgun calibers and rifle calibers where I load for multiples (223 and 30-06 even though I no longer have but one 30-06 rifle) so I don't shoulder bump those calibers, so I can't help you there.

I can say I've had no problems shoulder-bumping 0.002" with Redding or RCBS dies.

 

[bnewt3]

I agree with many above statements about the higher cost does just having nice features that make repeatability and switching settings easier.

Functionally, they all produce ammo more accurate than you can likely shoot the difference of with a hunting gun.

The functional downside to Lee in my experience is that it sizes the neck and shoulder much more than necessary and it's a pain to clean the die because of the decap pin retention design. Otherwise, they're awesome for the money and produce extremely accurate ammo.

The last time I bought a FL die set (243), I called Redding, RCBS, Lee, Hornady, and Forster to see which one sized the neck and shoulders the least amount and that was Forster, at least for the 243.

You can also order a custom honed neck diameter FL die from Forster, or send them your standard Forster FL die to have them hone, which is another plus for Forster. I will likely buy more of their FL dies.

Forgive my ignorance, but wouldnt a bushing die be a good answer here? get the bushing in the size you want?

 

[HighUintas]

Forgive my ignorance, but wouldnt a bushing die be a good answer here? get the bushing in the size you want?

Yes, but most bushing dies only do the neck and leave a weird donut at the bottom. The mfg also have different specs on shoulder diameter, which Forster was the least when I asked.

The neck/shoulder bushing dies are way more expensive.

The bushing dies have more parts to deal with etc etc.

I see the expensive feature rich dies as an expensive solution to something that is not really a problem, unless it is just something you desire, you want to add additional steps to the process, or need in order to shoot 4" groups at 1000yds.

I like simple, quick, gets the job done. My cheap Lee dies make ammo that is accurate enough for game at 1000. But I don't shoot well enough to even be shooting at game at 800 and I'm a decent shot in the field.

ANY type/brand of die should be sufficient for the average hunter and loader

 

[bnewt3]

Yes, but most bushing dies only do the neck and leave a weird donut at the bottom. The mfg also have different specs on shoulder diameter, which Forster was the least when I asked.

The neck/shoulder bushing dies are way more expensive.

The bushing dies have more parts to deal with etc etc.

I see the expensive feature rich dies as an expensive solution to something that is not really a problem, unless it is just something you desire, you want to add additional steps to the process, or need in order to shoot 4" groups at 1000yds.

I like simple, quick, gets the job done. My cheap Lee dies make ammo that is accurate enough for game at 1000. But I don't shoot well enough to even be shooting at game at 800 and I'm a decent shot in the field.

ANY type/brand of die should be sufficient for the average hunter and loader

Fair enough, thanks

 

[EdP]

I have a lot of RCBS dies and they get the job done but adjusting the standard seating die is a PITA. I could buy a micrometer adjuster for each RCBS die set, but Hornady dies are every bit as good and one micrometer adjuster works for all their dies. For that reason I buy the Hornady Custon Dies if I am going to load a new caliber and they are available. I also prefer the tapered Hornady expander better than the expander ball in the RCBS dies. I have a set of Redding Premium dies with the micrometer adjuster for my .280AI because Hornady dies were not available at the time. I like the Redding dies just fine.

 

[Lawnboi]

Also a fan of the sac. It sizes lower on cases as well than most others.

 

[SDHNTR]

Impossible to measure. Accuracy is far more dependent the individual barrel’s preference for a particular bullet/powder. Etc. the color of the reloading box means little for accuracy.

 

[justin davis]

SAC

 

[Lawnboi]

Impossible to measure. Accuracy is far more dependent the individual barrel’s preference for a particular bullet/powder. Etc. the color of the reloading box means little for accuracy.

In accuracy maybe not, but consistency of your ammunition, I can measure it. My main concern is function and consistent seating force. Quality equipment, especially a die does that. A good die also keeps you from possibly having issues down the road (ie bushing Dies and brass build up in the unsized portion of the neck).

Building the same ammo from 1 times fired to the barrel being fried is harder than some guys make it. Anyone can load consistent ammo for a few firings, but doing the same with 10 times fired brass is a different story.

 

[wind gypsy]

I've read sentiment like the below enough over the years. Started off with redding type S bushing dies for everything. Now i typically buy forster FL sizing dies with necks honed to minimize over working necks. Ive been typically getting forster micrometer seaters too but their lack of options for seating stems sucks, redding is better in that regard. I've tried Lee Collet Dies and I cant stand the resistance to bolt close that comes with not sizing the body.

 

[Yaremkiv]

I suppose you could look into what top br/f-class shooters are using and see if you notice a prefered brand. Not sure what that does for you though. Great rounds are loaded with everything from Lee and Hornady dies on Rock Chuckers to fancypants SAC and Area419 dies and presses.

 

[SDHNTR]

In accuracy maybe not, but consistency of your ammunition, I can measure it. My main concern is function and consistent seating force. Quality equipment, especially a die does that. A good die also keeps you from possibly having issues down the road (ie bushing Dies and brass build up in the unsized portion of the neck).

Building the same ammo from 1 times fired to the barrel being fried is harder than some guys make it. Anyone can load consistent ammo for a few firings, but doing the same with 10 times fired brass is a different story.

I’ll give you all that. I can measure concentricity and consistency in neck tension, sizing too, but I question sometimes how much that really matters on a target. I know I can’t tell the difference between .005” runout.

 

[Lawnboi]

I’ll give you all that. I can measure concentricity and consistency in neck tension, sizing too, but I question sometimes how much that really matters on a target. I know I can’t tell the difference between .005” runout.

I don’t even measure runout. I can tell a difference between the ammo I am making today and the ammo I used to make with my arbor press and have noticed a difference on target.

 

[Harvey_NW]

As someone looking to get into reloading myself, what i think im picking up is that its more about the type of die, not the brand of die.

IE: expander mandrel produces more consistent brass than an expander ball, I saw a video where cortina explains this is because the mandrel pushes into the brass in the same direction as FL sizing where the ball pulls out which is opposite of the FL sizing.

Cortina loves to spew theoretical wisdom with no data, that's why he sells magical tuners but won't show valid sample sizes on targets to prove they work. He's funny. Anyway, staying on topic, I bought some mandrels to test this theory if they produce more consistency than an expander ball in a standard FL die, I should be able to get some testing done after the 1st of the year. I'll try to remember to post results in here, but I'll likely start a new thread because I bought a couple different sizes for different calibers. But I can say I've been loading with standard FL dies and using expander balls for years and made perfectly sufficient ammo, so it will take a valid and meaningful difference to add an entire extra step to my process.

 

[Balderdash]

I’ll give you all that. I can measure concentricity and consistency in neck tension, sizing too, but I question sometimes how much that really matters on a target. I know I can’t tell the difference between .005” runout.

I used to watch concentricity like a hawk and have made equipment changes to my process in an effort to eliminate run out; however, several years ago I was shooting with a friend, who is a very good shooter and reloader, and I watched one of his 300 win mag reloads roll down the shooting bench, through which I could easily see that it wasn't very concentric. He was shooting sub .5" and better groups with them at 100 yds. Said he usu made them on an old set of RCBS FL dies.

 

[mtnbound]

Curious on everyone's take on the best dies. I'd really like to hear data on why? "I went from ___ to ___ and saw tighter tolerances" ect... not just "_____ is the best with no data"

Lets say the below 2. Can be different brands
-Full length sizing
-Seating

I have been using Hornady Customer Grade for years. I do use their Micrometer seating die head which is nice when you are playing with different bullet lengths.

If using a high end set makes you feel warm and fuzzy go for it but unless you are at the top of your shooting game and competing against other top level shooters you will not see any difference on target from a SAC set to a Hornady set.

 

[Balderdash]

As far as dies, I've used most models and processes available, but the most consistent ammo, in terms of group size, that I've made comes from:

Redding body die with .002 bump from positive headspace
Lee Collet neck die
Redding competition shell holder
RCBS match master seater.

The Reddding competition shell holders are fanrtastic for consistency. They enable full shell holder deck engagement with the bottom of dies, eliminating any slop in the press assembly.

 

[HighUintas]

The biggest difference I was able to make in shoulder setback consistency was from moving to a sturdy press (RCBS rebel) from a Lee hand press and making my case lube application more consistent. Went from a 0.003 spread to about a 0.0015 spread.

One thing to be mentioned on expensive dies that a few others mentioned is some, like SAC and micron, size the base more than others. This can help a lot of you're trying to reload brass as many times as possible or if you load hot and it tends to expand the base too much. This can matter more or less depending on your chamber, brass mfg and lot, your load pressure, and number of reloads you wish to get. I have experienced the problem and decided I just need to stop loading passed max pressure, for my particular situation.

 

[bnewt3]

Cortina loves to spew theoretical wisdom with no data, that's why he sells magical tuners but won't show valid sample sizes on targets to prove they work. He's funny. Anyway, staying on topic, I bought some mandrels to test this theory if they produce more consistency than an expander ball in a standard FL die, I should be able to get some testing done after the 1st of the year. I'll try to remember to post results in here, but I'll likely start a new thread because I bought a couple different sizes for different calibers. But I can say I've been loading with standard FL dies and using expander balls for years and made perfectly sufficient ammo, so it will take a valid and meaningful difference to add an entire extra step to my process.

The answer might be in your words

"sufficient ammo"

Your definition of sufficient may not be EC's or someone else's.

Im not an EC fanboy, but his results are undeniable and unless hes outed for trying to sell stuff he doesnt actually use IE: says he uses X but actually uses Y, then Im going to pay attention to what he says.......and ill also pay attention to things others say as well. Somewhere in the chaos is the absolute truth.

As @windgypsy posted, someone else has said the expander ball is not the most consistent method in their experience.

All that to say that I FULLY believe excellent ammo can be made with a cheap die with an expander ball. And with my level of skill at shooting rifles (decent but a long way to go) and reloading (none aside from a 2-300 basic shotshells) its doubtful i would notice a difference between the 2.