Best Alternatives to Shooting Prone

[bonepoint]

Looking for some input.

Our elk spot requires shooting across a canyon from a steep hillside where it is nearly impossible to set up prone. The elk go through the far side anywhere from 400-800 yards, with 500-600 being the most common shot. In years past we did our best to set up on the hillside over a boulder and our bag and that was ok for 300-450. Last year we brought up a Bog Pod tripod and that was better. It worked for 2 elk at 400-500 yards, but I tried it at 700 and missed several times. While it felt good and steady, the results say otherwise. For background, I am not a super experienced long range shooter like many on here, but I did shoot steel out to 800 yards several times before the season and felt very comfortable in making hits at 800, but that was always prone. The difference seems to be in being able to get a real solid rear rest.

Any recommendations or suggestions shooting positions on those longer shots? I do plan on practicing more this year with the tripod.

A buddy suggested that I go up there before the season and carve out a shooting pad on the hillside so I could shoot prone.

 

[fuzzymarindave]

Sitting but on ground with long bipod up front and backpack as rear rest. Carving a shooting pad works until you have to relocate. Nice to have such a good spot!

 

[rookieforever33]

Can you get on top of that ridge before the elk move through?

 

[hereinaz]

100% solid tripod front and rear support with something like pack, treking pole/shooting sticks.

I call it old man prone and can shoot kneeling better than prone because it’s just not as comfortable for me to get prone.

Here is a post with some videos. If you search using tripod and my user name I have a couple other threads probably useful, and comments on other tripod threads.

Thread 'Thread for Fast/Solid Tripod Techniques'
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/thread-for-fast-solid-tripod-techniques.415512/

 

[43.6N]

My dad with 2 knee replacements struggles with the typical mobility required for prone shooting.
We have worked a lot over the last year to help him build good seated positions.

Key principles:
Stable front support
Stable rear support
And the “key” is something to take up the negative space between the stock and your belly/waist.

Tripod front, backpack rear in a bear-hug has worked well.

Tripod front and rear with a sleeping bag as a space filling bear-hug bag has also worked.

Practice building and breaking the position on the clock. A lot of the missing comes from inconsistent grip and cheek pressure. So practicing getting into the position so that the setup and pressure is always the same leads to the same type of consistency that you can get prone.

Good luck

 

[Formidilosus]

While it felt good and steady, the results say otherwise. For background, I am not a super experienced long range shooter like many on here, but I did shoot steel out to 800 yards several times before the season and felt very comfortable in making hits at 800, but that was always prone. The difference seems to be in being able to get a real solid rear rest.

I’m going to go a different direction than others…

800 yards is so far beyond “several times before the season”, that it shouldn’t even be in the conversation. The reason “it felt good and steady”, yet you missed several times is because you do not have the shooting volume or experience to be shooting at animals at 700 yards. 700 yards on animals- let alone 800 yards, is thousands upon thousands of rounds a year, rear round, and in the conditions you will experience while hunting. Prone, tripod- doesn’t matter. There is no way around that.

 

[hereinaz]

Meant to post this video to show how I learned to shoot from a hillside. I never look for a prone shot anymore.

I also thought about some other things, and have some time to kill and share my thoughts.

Building a position for every shot, maximizing support for the rifle and body parts is critical for stability. Think about how to build every position as supported and relaxed as prone, and with as much meat behind the rifle to absorb/control recoil. Besides the stability of prone, the mass of our body behind the rifle is a factor that some don’t seem to realize/consider.

For those longer shots, understanding how a rifle moves when connected to a tripod is critical, especially for heavy recoiling rifles. It is easy to get a stable position for the rifle, but your upper body is not well positioned to control/manage recoil consistently.

I spent part of a year practicing in the field doing build and break drills shooting rocks off my tripod. I learned a lot about the fundamentals beyond just the rifle support. Recoil absolutely wrecks what otherwise seems like a stable shot. It is especially true the longer the shot.

Also, I found that I got inconsistent results from rifle clamps. I find clipping into a good ball head or shooting off a bag on top of the tripod are the most consistent. If the clamp, small ball head, or whatever is front support moves during recoil, inconsistent results typically follow. All movements of the rifle before the bullet leaves the barrel decrease precision and cause misses, especially as the distance increases.

All that is my opinion and experience tripod shooting, and I think it involves more than most realize. This is one situation where it requires practice with the gear you use in the similar situation.

 

[bonepoint]

Sitting but on ground with long bipod up front and backpack as rear rest. Carving a shooting pad works until you have to relocate. Nice to have such a good spot!

Have thought on that, but it is steep enough that it is hard to get a pack under the rear and have any room to get behind the rifle. But it is probably going to have be some version of this with a tall bipod or tripod.

A shooting pad would work in this spot for seeing most of the far hillside.....but no one spot will get cover completely all of it.

 

[bonepoint]

Can you get on top of that ridge before the elk move through?

We have tried that a few times, but it never work out for us. They are headed out of that canyon at first light and may come out of various different elevations - and the vantage point is pretty poor from the same side. If we guessed their elevation right that day, it would work great. The last time we tried it, I went over there and bumped a nice bull that my brother was setting up on, and I never even knew it was there. We have considered trying it again.

 

[bonepoint]

I’m going to go a different direction than others…

800 yards is so far beyond “several times before the season”, that it shouldn’t even be in the conversation. The reason “it felt good and steady”, yet you missed several times is because you do not have the shooting volume or experience to be shooting at animals at 700 yards. 700 yards on animals- let alone 800 yards, is thousands upon thousands of rounds a year, rear round, and in the conditions you will experience while hunting. Prone, tripod- doesn’t matter. There is no way around that.

I now know that shot was too far for me under those conditions. I may never shoot at one at 700 at this spot again, but I do need to find a better way to setup - and go practice it - and that should help me at whatever distance they are at in the future.

 

[JamieLee]

Get a good carbon fiber tripod and you can sit. But they’re good to have around anyway.

 

[bonepoint]

100% solid tripod front and rear support with something like pack, treking pole/shooting sticks.

I call it old man prone and can shoot kneeling better than prone because it’s just not as comfortable for me to get prone.

Here is a post with some videos. If you search using tripod and my user name I have a couple other threads probably useful, and comments on other tripod threads.

Thread 'Thread for Fast/Solid Tripod Techniques'
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/thread-for-fast-solid-tripod-techniques.415512/

Thanks. I will take some time to go through that and follow up. My dad also has a neck injury where he can't shoot prone, which is why we got the tripod in the first place.

 

[bonepoint]

Get a good carbon fiber tripod and you can sit. But they’re good to have around anyway.

That is what we have, and that seemed to work great out to around 500. My 16 year son got his first bull off the tripod this year at 425 and it worked great.

 

[Formidilosus]

I now know that shot was too far for me under those conditions. I may never shoot at one at 700 at this spot again, but I do need to find a better way to setup - and go practice it - and that should help me at whatever distance they are at in the future.

Good deal.


Tripods work, but you must practice with them heavily on and off the range in uneven and broken terrain- setup is extremely important, and they torque the rifle and and make straight line recoil mush more difficult. Print out the Riflecraft targets and shoot 10 round groups from a tripod on them and you will see that hitting 2 MOA targets is extremely difficult.

From a group size and straight line, neutral recoil perspective- crossed hiking sticks in the front and a pack in the rear is about the easiest/most consistent setup to hit things if not prone. It too takes practice.

 

[bonepoint]

Good deal.


Tripods work, but you must practice with them heavily on and off the range in uneven and broken terrain- setup is extremely important, and they torque the rifle and and make straight line recoil mush more difficult. Print out the Riflecraft targets and shoot 10 round groups from a tripod on them and you will see that hitting 2 MOA targets is extremely difficult.

From a group size and straight line, neutral recoil perspective- crossed hiking sticks in the front and a pack in the rear is about the easiest/most consistent setup to hit things if not prone. It too takes practice.

Yeah, I definitely should have practiced more shooting from the tripod, setting it up quickly, etc. Spent most of the time practicing prone.

 

[bonepoint]

My dad with 2 knee replacements struggles with the typical mobility required for prone shooting.
We have worked a lot over the last year to help him build good seated positions.

Key principles:
Stable front support
Stable rear support
And the “key” is something to take up the negative space between the stock and your belly/waist.

Tripod front, backpack rear in a bear-hug has worked well.

Tripod front and rear with a sleeping bag as a space filling bear-hug bag has also worked.

Practice building and breaking the position on the clock. A lot of the missing comes from inconsistent grip and cheek pressure. So practicing getting into the position so that the setup and pressure is always the same leads to the same type of consistency that you can get prone.

Good luck

Thanks. I will play around more with filling that space. Hadn't thought a lot about that, but it makes sense.

 

[JamieLee]

That is what we have, and that seemed to work great out to around 500. My 16 year son got his first bull off the tripod this year at 425 and it worked great.

I use one coyote hunting and have been successful to 779 yards. But I’ve shot steel coyote sized targets consistently at 1000. Been using them for over 10 years and thousands of rounds. In all fairness, I live where it’s table top flat and just stand and shoot.

 

[wpeach1912]

Front and rear tripod but that’s a lot to setup on a mountainside

 

[hereinaz]

Good deal.


Tripods work, but you must practice with them heavily on and off the range in uneven and broken terrain- setup is extremely important, and they torque the rifle and and make straight line recoil mush more difficult. Print out the Riflecraft targets and shoot 10 round groups from a tripod on them and you will see that hitting 2 MOA targets is extremely difficult.

From a group size and straight line, neutral recoil perspective- crossed hiking sticks in the front and a pack in the rear is about the easiest/most consistent setup to hit things if not prone. It too takes practice.

Yes, tripod torque is a problem. To minimize it, use a stiff tripod, solid ball head, and always shoot with one leg pointed directly at or directly away from the target (unless you are shooting off a bag and the forend can ride it in a straight line). I already touched on the other factor, which is good for any position, which is to get your body mass behind the rifle and mitigate recoil as much as possible.

When I am in a good glassing/ambush spot, I will go ahead and build the expected shooting position around the shooter and have them dry fire. I leave it set up, and that is especially helpful for those who are not as mobile. I have some spots where I bring a chair/stool for glassing a hill side that animals travel at first/last light. They still need to do the shooting, but we've helped a few doing this.

 

[hereinaz]

Thanks. I will play around more with filling that space. Hadn't thought a lot about that, but it makes sense.

Agreed, we use packs, ultralight shooting bags, a big rock, puffy jackets in stuff sacks, and anything else to help prop up knees, elbows, and any other gap. Think about it as starting from the ground up and making sure appendages are supported so that the shooter is relaxed and not under tension.