Beginner Caliber and Rifle

[Mtnmilsurp]

The one good thing hunting/rifle-wise about living in California is you can hunt Blacktails with .223. What could be funner to shoot for a newbie kid than a mini-action?

 

[sodaksooner]

I don't know why someone would think a 25-06 isn't big enough for deer sized game. I've killed a ton of deer with a .257 Roberts. Bigger dia bullet than the .243's/6mm's people are recommending and virtually the same base case (7 x 57 Mauser) I've always just used a 117 grain Sierra BT. Recoil is manageable (I bought mine when I was 12). Nothing wrong with the venerable old .243 either, although the one I have is an old Savage 99 and is super light (consequently has pretty good recoil)

 

[KenLee]

7mm-08 with 120 gr TTSX factory ammo.
I've had kids from as small as 45 pounds use these from a Browning micro midas with great results.

 

[Macintosh]

• You can’t go wrong with a 6.5 Creed and 120’s. As mentioned by someone else, you want speed with copper bullets, and the Creed will push 120’s around 3000 fps which should be more than fine within 300 yards.

...

Agree in principle, except I think you are both overselling and underselling the 6.5mb. This is directly from my strelok app using my 6.5cm with a 24" barrel and federal trophy copper 120gr:

advertised MV is 2875. Mine trues-out over 100fps slower than this--even with my much slower trued velocity, this is what my strelok app says velocity will be at various ranges:

• 100 yards: 2516fps
• 200: 2374fps
• 300: 2236fps
• 400: 2105fps
• 450: 2040fps
• 480: 2002fps
• 500: 1977fps

It looks to me that unless you are being ultra-conservative with velocity, a hunter has over a 450-yard effective range while still keeping velocity well above the 1800fps that federal claims their ammo reliably expands at. Most folks I know stick to 2000fps for this purpose to determine max range. Regardless, effective range is far past the distance I would have a new hunter shooting at game under even the absolute best of circumstances, (and I think this applies to pretty much any of the calibers being discussed).

 

[S-3 ranch]

Any 6.5 cm-308 win

 

[RadDad]

I appreciate everyone’s help here. Since I have a 7RM, my gut is leading me toward a 7mm-08. This will allow me to have only .284”bullets for loading. My workbench is fully ready to handload as soon as I can get primers…that’s whole other story. While everyone made some good arguments for other calibers, it seems those with 7mm-08’s are more than satisfied with them.

My thought is I’ll likely purchase a rifle with a threaded barrel for a brake. This will take some of the recoil off the shooter which for a kid and/or first time shooter is a good thing. Right now I’m looking hard at the Bergara B-14 Ridge so any feedback on that is appreciated!

Thanks again everyone.

-RadDad

 

[KenLee]

If you install a brake, use muffs over plugs for the kids. The noise causes a flinch worse than recoil, imo.

 

[Thinkingman]

If you install a brake, use muffs over plugs for the kids. The noise causes a flinch worse than recoil, imo.

Agreed.
Don't brake a gun that a kid will be using....or standing next to when it goes off.

 

[SouthPaw]

does CA have caliber restrictions?

No caliber restriction for deer but it must be centerfire and comply with CA's other firearm laws (magazine capacity, nothing scary looking, etc). I hunt CA with a .223

If you install a brake, use muffs over plugs for the kids. The noise causes a flinch worse than recoil, imo.

Not to mention the hearing damage to young kids so early in life

 

[Thinkingman]

7mm-08 with 120 gr TTSX factory ammo.
I've had kids from as small as 45 pounds use these from a Browning micro midas with great results.

Seems to me 7-08 and 120 Coppers would be like peas and carrots.
I have a box of TTSX 120s on my workbench but haven't loaded any yet.
Anybody have a great Varget recipe?

 

[RadDad]

If you install a brake, use muffs over plugs for the kids. The noise causes a flinch worse than recoil, imo.

Very good point! I have always been diligent about ear protection while hunting and at the range. More than a couple of my hunting buddies try to “tough it out” without ear pro but are paying for that as we’re getting up there in years.

 

[Rob5589]

I appreciate everyone’s help here. Since I have a 7RM, my gut is leading me toward a 7mm-08. This will allow me to have only .284”bullets for loading. My workbench is fully ready to handload as soon as I can get primers…that’s whole other story. While everyone made some good arguments for other calibers, it seems those with 7mm-08’s are more than satisfied with them.

My thought is I’ll likely purchase a rifle with a threaded barrel for a brake. This will take some of the recoil off the shooter which for a kid and/or first time shooter is a good thing. Right now I’m looking hard at the Bergara B-14 Ridge so any feedback on that is appreciated!

Thanks again everyone.

-RadDad

Basically the way I went; bought a T3 7RM and later bought a T3 7/08 for my daughter. She started shooting it at around 12-13 without issue. I load a 120 TTSX using a recipe straight from Barnes. Great accuracy but she hasn't killed anything yet with it.

 

[RadDad]

Basically the way I went; bought a T3 7RM and later bought a T3 7/08 for my daughter. She started shooting it at around 12-13 without issue. I load a 120 TTSX using a recipe straight from Barnes. Great accuracy but she hasn't killed anything yet with it.

That’s a BIG help and good to hear. T3 is not off the table either. Thanks for the reply.

- RadDad

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

That’s a BIG help and good to hear. T3 is not off the table either. Thanks for the reply.

- RadDad

The nice part is it can "grow" with her, if needed, for any hunt in the Lower 49 and even some hunts up in the Upper 1.

 

[Michael54]

Seems to me 7-08 and 120 Coppers would be like peas and carrots.
I have a box of TTSX 120s on my workbench but haven't loaded any yet.
Anybody have a great Varget recipe?

No varget recipe but this load shoots lights out in the wifes browning, sister in laws rem 700, and uncles ruger american.

 

[Motown]

Agree in principle, except I think you are both overselling and underselling the 6.5mb. This is directly from my strelok app using my 6.5cm with a 24" barrel and federal trophy copper 120gr:

advertised MV is 2875. Mine trues-out over 100fps slower than this--even with my much slower trued velocity, this is what my strelok app says velocity will be at various ranges:

• 100 yards: 2516fps
• 200: 2374fps
• 300: 2236fps
• 400: 2105fps
• 450: 2040fps
• 480: 2002fps
• 500: 1977fps

It looks to me that unless you are being ultra-conservative with velocity, a hunter has over a 450-yard effective range while still keeping velocity well above the 1800fps that federal claims their ammo reliably expands at. Most folks I know stick to 2000fps for this purpose to determine max range. Regardless, effective range is far past the distance I would have a new hunter shooting at game under even the absolute best of circumstances, (and I think this applies to pretty much any of the calibers being discussed).

I am speaking more to how far the average kid will take a shot at an animal since the OP mentioned its for his nephews. I fully agree with your take on the cartridge and being effective out to around 500 yards, but the average kid isn’t going to be taking a shot at that distance.

The OP also mentioned that he reloads his own ammo so that will help get better velocities than what factory ammo has to offer. I am shooting 120gr ballistic tips out of my 22” Mesa and getting right around 2950fps with RL16. My Tikka with a 24” barrel is also getting 2960fps with 135gr Bergers and RL26. Both of these rifles are about 100-200fps slower with the same factory offerings.

 

[MeatMissile]

That’s a BIG help and good to hear. T3 is not off the table either. Thanks for the reply.

- RadDad

T3/T3x is a good rifle. Just remember, the 6.5 CM T3x has a longer barrel than the other T3x rifles in standard calibers. The 243 and 7mm-08 have 22, 6.5 has 24.

 

[Formidilosus]

I appreciate everyone’s help here. Since I have a 7RM, my gut is leading me toward a 7mm-08. This will allow me to have only .284”bullets for loading. My workbench is fully ready to handload as soon as I can get primers…that’s whole other story. While everyone made some good arguments for other calibers, it seems those with 7mm-08’s are more than satisfied with them.

My thought is I’ll likely purchase a rifle with a threaded barrel for a brake. This will take some of the recoil off the shooter which for a kid and/or first time shooter is a good thing. Right now I’m looking hard at the Bergara B-14 Ridge so any feedback on that is appreciated!

Thanks again everyone.

-RadDad

About the worst thing someone could do is give a new shooter a braked rifle.


The 7mm-08 has about 15 ft-lbs of recoil in a 7.5lb rifle. That doesn’t seem like much (it’s over the comfortable limit for the average adult male, btw); however, it is quite different for a smaller framed shooter. 15 ft-lbs of recoil for a 100lb person is about equivalent to a 7.5lb 300 mag with 180gr bullets for a 200lb person. It’s actually worse than that though due to smaller shooters and females having significantly less upper body mass and especially neck strength, aka- whiplash and concussions.


For everyone saying “my kid does fine”, you need to understand the real effects of recoil on them- a 7mm-08 with 120’s is like you shooting a 300 Weatherby mag full tilt with 200gr bullets.

 

[jfs82]

I appreciate everyone’s help here. Since I have a 7RM, my gut is leading me toward a 7mm-08. This will allow me to have only .284”bullets for loading. My workbench is fully ready to handload as soon as I can get primers…that’s whole other story. While everyone made some good arguments for other calibers, it seems those with 7mm-08’s are more than satisfied with them.

My thought is I’ll likely purchase a rifle with a threaded barrel for a brake. This will take some of the recoil off the shooter which for a kid and/or first time shooter is a good thing. Right now I’m looking hard at the Bergara B-14 Ridge so any feedback on that is appreciated!

Thanks again everyone.

-RadDad

I've got a b14 ridge in 6.5 that loves barnes 127 lrx (Im also in CA). Bolt feels much smoother than rugers and savages I've shot, really accurate rifle. That being said, I built myself a 22 creed to hunt everything and the 6.5 is the backup gun now.

 

[MeatMissile]

About the worst thing someone could do is give a new shooter a braked rifle.


The 7mm-08 has about 15 ft-lbs of recoil in a 7.5lb rifle. That doesn’t seem like much (it’s over the comfortable limit for the average adult male, btw); however, it is quite different for a smaller framed shooter. 15 ft-lbs of recoil for a 100lb person is about equivalent to a 7.5lb 300 mag with 180gr bullets for a 200lb person. It’s actually worse than that though due to smaller shooters and females having significantly less upper body mass and especially neck strength, aka- whiplash and concussions.


For everyone saying “my kid does fine”, you need to understand the real effects of recoil on them- a 7mm-08 with 120’s is like you shooting a 300 Weatherby mag full tilt with 200gr bullets.

The recoil of a 7mm-08 is above the natural comfortable limit for the average adult male? Maybe if you rest it on the tip of your nose or your balls.

In all seriousness, some people aren’t cut out to do certain things and it’s no big deal. But we shouldn’t make monsters from moles. If the average male can’t handle a 7mm-08, we are in trouble.