Bear spray / Handgun

[Matt Cashell]

As far as visitors go... that depends. A guy coming up to fish the Kenai or vacation around the road system is much better off with spray. Chances are they'll never even see a bear and the spray is purchased and disposed of locally with zero of the hassles that firearms can entail.

A guy heading out in the backcountry is better off with both a firearm and some spray IMHO- provided they're comfortable with it.

Not to downplay it- but bears are way down the list of things most folks should worry about. Thousands of folks conduct themselves through the backcountry safely with no sign of a bear at all. Camp clean and keep your wits about you and folks are fine. Gotta remember that Treadwell encountered hundreds of bears over years before one finally ate him and he basically did everything you're NOT supposed to do.

Great post hodgeman. Sounds like very good advice.

We see these threads pretty regularly, and I am a little concerned when people new to grizzly country get the advice that spray is useless, and what they really need is a big bore revolver. I still think both can be effective, and the learning curve is easier with spray.

Here is a recent account of spray seemingly helping out, but issues with fumbling with the safety tab and wind issues are both mentioned as well:

http://www.kulr8.com/story/28776510/man-survives-attack-by-3-bears

 

[Ray]

I recommend people do/use what they are extremely comfortable with. Most pistol users can't hit anything because they never take the time to put thousands of rounds through their pistol. For any weapon if you can't put two rounds into 3" at 20 feet in two seconds or less, don't bother. If you're lucky the bear will give you 5 seconds.
Many times I have met hikers with bear spray on their packs. They have to take the pack off to reach it, or fiddle with it blindly. No matter what defense you carry, you have to be able to deploy it in a few seconds.
My only issue with spray is getting on planes. For a small plane with exterior compartments you have to seal the spray in an ammo can or pelican case. If there is no external place you will never get the spray on that plane. No spray on any commercial flight either. Guns are really easy to get on planes. But if can't shoot it well then what?

 

[jwb300]

Sorry for the thread hi-jack

I'm travelling to AK in August and was considering getting some bear spray. We will be doing a bit of fishing down the Kenai and spending 6 nights float rafting down Lake Creek. We are also visiting Denali for a few days of hiking.

I have a couple of questions for you folks in the know...

Do you think it is worth getting bear spray? I so where do I get it?
We are flying into Lake Creek - I understand you cannot take it inside of the plane's cabin? Do most light aircraft have a place to take it on the outside of the cabin?
What do you do with it when we are going to leave? I can't take it home with me.

Cheers,
JWB300

 

[direwolf]

It's maybe 50-50 on how many people pack some bear protection for summer fishing. The areas where you will be will have quite a few people around and the bears are used to seeing people. Mostly they are focused on catching fish and not too interested in messing with people. On the other hand there are incidents every year where people get mauled or killed. If you fly on a float plane they will put your spray in the float. If it is a wheel plane they might have a cargo pod to put it in, but otherwise not allowed in the passenger compartment space. At the end of your trip you could give it to another tourist or make a cool video to post about what happens when people get hosed down with bear spray

 

[jwb300]

Thanks Direwolf

I like the idea of the video! I'm sure there is a suitable local green group who could use a bit of a hit!

Alternatively if there are any Rocksliders who would want it send me a PM and I can arrange to give it to them.

Cheers,
JWB300

 

[mmw194287]

I would bring a can on your Lake Creek trip--I hear from rafters quite a bit about curious bears poking around their campsites. No problem taking it on the plane, either--they'll just stick it in one of the floats. It'll be pretty routine. In fact, I actually wouldn't be surprised if whoever is renting you the rafts/tents/etc. would provide you with a can or two.

 

[duchntr]

Sorry for the thread hi-jack

I'm travelling to AK in August and was considering getting some bear spray. We will be doing a bit of fishing down the Kenai and spending 6 nights float rafting down Lake Creek. We are also visiting Denali for a few days of hiking.

I have a couple of questions for you folks in the know...

Do you think it is worth getting bear spray? I so where do I get it?
We are flying into Lake Creek - I understand you cannot take it inside of the plane's cabin? Do most light aircraft have a place to take it on the outside of the cabin?
What do you do with it when we are going to leave? I can't take it home with me.

Cheers,
JWB300

Yea get it, everywhere sells it from walmart to rei.

 

[Ramshead]

In BC, I carry a rifle only during hunting season, and bear spray during summer backpacking/scouting trips in southern BC. Having said that, if I were doing any summer backpacking in northern BC or the Territories, I would be sure to carry a rifle too. I used to guide both in the north and south and found that the northern bears were much more predatory than the ones in the BC Kootenays. Although spray does work in most instances, you want a rifle when huddled inside a tent at night with a bear pressing his nose against the fabric.
For some good reading, I would recommend "Bear Attacks, The Deadly Truth" by Gary Shelton. He is an old BC boy with extensive field experience. My experiences and opinions align with his more so than with Herrero's. Disclosure: In some 35 years of fairly extensive backcountry travel I have shot 1 grizzly in self defence in the NW Territories, and one black bear inside a cabin at 2 am in southern BC. Funny thing was, of all the bear kills I have been on, none bled and pooped so much as the one I shot in that cabin. What a mess!!!!

 

[LukeJohnson]

Two great books to read to help you decide which direction you want to go...and to help you have the correct mindset with either choice: Bear Attacks: The Deadly Truth. And Bear Encounter Survival Guide. Both of these are written by James Gary Shelton.
I work for a company that manufactures aftermarket upgrades for the Glock line of pistols...so of course I carry a Glock 20 wherever I go. I think that in areas with higher concentrations of Grizzlies and the percentage for encounters are very high; carrying both would be prudent...and knowing when and preparing your mindset ahead of time is crucial. On a side note; the current issue of Western Hunter has a story about a guy who was carrying both a sidearm AND bearspray, who got charged and had little to no time to get either option into action. There could have been many variables at play as to why he didn't/couldn't...but it's a good illustration of s#it gone bad and how you can't plan for every scenario. You can only hope that you'll act correctly in the heat of the moment. And that comes down to training; mindset, pre-visualization, or otherwise.

 

[Ray]

Sorry for the thread hi-jack

I'm travelling to AK in August and was considering getting some bear spray. We will be doing a bit of fishing down the Kenai and spending 6 nights float rafting down Lake Creek. We are also visiting Denali for a few days of hiking.

I have a couple of questions for you folks in the know...

Do you think it is worth getting bear spray? I so where do I get it?
We are flying into Lake Creek - I understand you cannot take it inside of the plane's cabin? Do most light aircraft have a place to take it on the outside of the cabin?
What do you do with it when we are going to leave? I can't take it home with me.

Cheers,
JWB300

When you get to Anchorage you can get it an nearly any outdoors gear store. You are planning on hitting Cabelas and Bass Pro for the US Big Box store experience and they will have at least two racks of spray. Get a holster for it that is an over the shoulder sling. You do not need to draw the spray from the holster, just shoot from the hip.

Your Lake Creek outfitter may already provide spray as part of the trip. Email them and ask what they think about you bringing your own. If they are providing a guide, that person will have a firearm anyway.

You will be flying in on floats to a lake where the creek starts. Probably a Beaver, but could be a Cessna 206. There will be outside compartments for the spray. If you were in a cub on wheels your options are limited unless the pilot has some kind of external pod.

Down on the Kenai, I would not really worry about it as half the people around you will be armed. But most them couldn't hit a fish in a bucket with their hand cannon. If you are walking up the Russian lakes trail above the river you may want to wait and walk with some other folks as it is likely that you will run into a bear on the trail. Not always, but it does occur. Usually not an issue as the bears are used to us. If you are doing the Cresent Lake hike for grayling it would be a good idea to have spray.

For Denali I would for sure have some spray as those are interior bears and can be more aggressive at times. Most bears will bluff charge and run off, but every few years someone in Denali with a small camera has a bear issue. Telephoto lenses are your friend and can save your life faster than a can of spray. Keep your distance as some sows with cubs up there think 100 meters is too close. 50 meters are you are going to get her opinion up close.

If you buy some spray, you can leave it in the rental car, or leave it with anyone you meet up with.

 

[jwb300]

Thanks Ray - appreciate your advice. I think I'll pick up some spray to be on the safe side.

Cheers,
JWB300

 

[JeremiahH]

Bringing this back up because of recent events and would like some advice.
I think I want to sell off my 45 acp for a grizzly country hand gun. What does someone with experience suggest. Something utility purposed for archery hunting that isn't too heavy. Yes I have spray but since that recently failed a guy in Montana I've lost a little faith in it.

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[AK Troutbum]

I prefer wheel guns for bear protection. Mine is a S&W .500 with 2.75" barrel.

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[elkguide]

I carry a Ruger Red Hawk in .44 Mag and spray.

 

[duchntr]

Bringing this back up because of recent events and would like some advice.
I think I want to sell off my 45 acp for a grizzly country hand gun. What does someone with experience suggest. Something utility purposed for archery hunting that isn't too heavy. Yes I have spray but since that recently failed a guy in Montana I've lost a little faith in it.

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g29 is small and light, bit more punch then the 45, might work for you. Anything is better then nothing though ,pick something and get proficient using it, a guide up here DLP'd a brownie with his 9mm.

 

[Darren Best]

Just had a bear attack in Montana where spray failed, same bear attacked the guy twice.

The incident in Idaho last year was a guy that got charged at close range and had his spray on his left side, the bear chomped down on that arm and broke it, he pulled out his handgun on the other side and shot the bear.

I just recently read somewhere that the bear spray study was heavily flawed in favor of spray. No I won't go looking for it, your Google-fu works just as good as mine does. I do not have time to waste searching the net about a subject I have already made up my mind on nor do I have any desire to attempt to change someone's mind that has no desire to change it.

Anyone that has dealt with wasp nests and used spray on them can tell you how much fun chemical spray is, especially when the wind kicks up a little or you are in tight quarters.

Spray has more variables and is more finicky.

I think the biggest deciding factor is this, do you want to deal with the paperwork and hassle of shooting a bear in self defense or just shoo it off (and hope to hell it works) with spray and go about your business afterwards and risk a trip to the ER or morgue, if it doesn't work.

I have dealt with several bears that got too close and I shooed them off by yelling at them, that vast majority of bear encounters are this kind.

 

[Violent Hippie]

I posted in another thread ( should have in this one) about this subject. Carrying a sidearm has always been a part of my backcountry experience until I began archery hunting CA were it is illegal to carry a firearm while archery hunting. It was a tough psychological hurdle to overcome and I had to just believe in my woodsmanship ( being smart about hanging food , having the required situational awareness, paying attention when field butchering) and carrying bear spray at the ready with knowledge in it use. I have sprayed multiple black bears at close range and they immediately ran off but I have had the same bear return a few hours later on 2 occasions. Darren, what was story on the failed bear spray incident. Was it a brown bear or black bear ? Were was this ? I have no stock in bear spray but besides getting some winded in my face and coughing for a half hour (sure clears out the sinuse HA !) I have had good results and am prolly gonna just carry it when bow hunting in wolf and grizz country next year. I do have multiple sidearms to choose from but not sure if I will bring .We DO NOT have grizzlies or wolves here although I treat the area I hunt as if we do pretty much. Good thread.

 

[maninthemaze]

If I'm not mistaken the failed bear spray story was a grizzly running full speed at the guy. The guy started spraying at 30 feet. The bear came through the spray and got him. I think the conclusion was with a grizzly running 35 mph, he was only in the spray for a few seconds. Hope this helps.

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[Beendare]

Good thread.

Anytime you see research or a article, newscast, etc......its important to know the authors perspective. Axel posts relevant info on this in the first page. The FWS, National Parks folks and AKFG do NOT want these bears shot- period....don't you think that slants their recommendations for non lethal defense? Kevin post #17 pretty much details my opinion word for word....

Now if a guy is packing a handgun he has not religiously practiced with- its going to be worthless and he would be better off with spray. Quick shooting with a large cal handgun- draw and fire- takes a lot of practice to get good. Worth the effort IMO.

I use a SW 629 classic loaded with hardcast. If I was buying a dedicated bear gun now...it would be that lightweight SW 329PD
Model 329PD | Smith & Wesson
My second choice would be one of the Glock 10mms, rebarreled and loaded with hardcast. I think the HC bullets are going to be a game changer making lesser calibers more effective...but time will tell.

 

[2ski]

If I'm not mistaken the failed bear spray story was a grizzly running full speed at the guy. The guy started spraying at 30 feet. The bear came through the spray and got him. I think the conclusion was with a grizzly running 35 mph, he was only in the spray for a few seconds. Hope this helps.

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You are supposed to spray and then step out of the way. So that this doesn't happen. At least that is what I heard with reference to this attack.

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