Bear Gun

[AZ Vince]

Just thought I'd post a pic of the handgun I picked up for bear defense.
I've already got a model 58 for bipedal defense.

S & W, Model 57, 6" barrel, prelock, pinned and recessed, .41 Magnum.

 

[AXEL]

NO offence intended, but, I cannt imagine a situation where a moderately powered revolver such as that would be truly effective in defence against marauding bears, especially Grizzlies.

I LOVE the pair you have and would choose much the same if we were allowed to carry in Canada, but, even a .44Mag.-300 gr. handload is pretty sketchy where stopping a bear is concerned. This, BTW, is based on considerable personal experience working in western/northern Canada in bear-rich environments and dealing with wounded and POed bears.

Due to age and injuries, I have sold all but one of my "bear guns" and may soon sel my 20" STS-tubed P-64 custom .375H&H, in it's Micky stock, Reckagel FO sights and QD mounts holding a pair of Leupy 2.5C scopes. THIS, is a BEAR rifle and easy to carry and shoot well, with appropriate practice.

I would go with a shorty, CRF 9.3x62 using SAF or NP 286s over RE-17 to 2500 and rock any nasty bruin's world.

 

[luke moffat]

I would go with a shorty, CRF 9.3x62 using SAF or NP 286s over RE-17 to 2500 and rock any nasty bruin's world.

I want to build the same but it'll be 35 Whelen.....just cause

 

[GKPrice]

Luke - THAT is what I've been agonizing over with that pre-64 ......
then there's the old story about the hunter showing his seasoned Alaskan guide the shiny new handgun he brought along for "bear defense" and the guide gave his advice to file that front sight "nice and smooth" - when the hunter questioned why?, the guide responded "so when that bear shoves the gun up your A?? it won't hurt quite so bad"

 

[luke moffat]

Yeah mine would be on a Kimber if JES will do it

 

[AZ Vince]

I look at any handgun as something better than a sharp stick but not the preferred line of defense. The handgun is for that late night trip to the outhouse.

 

[BRobertson]

NO offence intended, but, I cannt imagine a situation where a moderately powered revolver such as that would be truly effective in defence against marauding bears, especially Grizzlies.

I LOVE the pair you have and would choose much the same if we were allowed to carry in Canada, but, even a .44Mag.-300 gr. handload is pretty sketchy where stopping a bear is concerned. This, BTW, is based on considerable personal experience working in western/northern Canada in bear-rich environments and dealing with wounded and POed bears.

Due to age and injuries, I have sold all but one of my "bear guns" and may soon sel my 20" STS-tubed P-64 custom .375H&H, in it's Micky stock, Reckagel FO sights and QD mounts holding a pair of Leupy 2.5C scopes. THIS, is a BEAR rifle and easy to carry and shoot well, with appropriate practice.

I would go with a shorty, CRF 9.3x62 using SAF or NP 286s over RE-17 to 2500 and rock any nasty bruin's world.

No offense intended at all,
Its always amazing to me how many folks that have never killed an animal, especially a bear, with a handgun will go on about how ineffective they are!!
If a person is willing to devote the time and effort to gaining the abilities needed, they are VERY effective (given the correct bullet) , and VERY handy.
Large caliber handguns kill more like an old buffalo cartridge. Fact is if you place a heavy .44, .41, .45 bullet through a bear, moose, elk, etc., it will die very quickly!!
In a less than optimum situation, one of these bullets will penetrate full length through a bear , of course you must do your part in the placement.
The great thing about a handgun is that you can always have it with you and very handy.

BTW this is based on considerable experience with handguns use in hunting big game ( 46 yrs) and guiding bear hunters (37 yrs). I hunt exclusively with a revolver, including grizzlies. Most of the time I hunt alone, and I don't have a death wish. I used to work at a job where I constantly hiked along salmon streams loaded with big bears and I felt safe packing my 4" .44. Granted a short barreled .375 or 12 gauge with slugs would be a better choice in an actual , rare encounter with a truly aggressive bear, but sometimes it just is not possible to have your choice !!
I also had to answer calls about problem bears, and in those situations I DID carry a rifle with me, simply because I had that luxury.

Bob

 

[GKPrice]

both are VERY good points - the "placement" part is what I would think the weak link, practice, practice, practice

 

[Jdog]

Goods points made by all.

No matter what you are shooting, having the ability to "slow down" and keep calm during a close bear encounter is key--and that may not save your bacon depending on the encounter.

I've had two such encounters with bears under 20 steps--one of which I almost made a MAJOR mistake before shooting and stopping a grouchy, hungry sow.

Stay cool, stay cool!

 

[AXEL]

I did NOT say anything about what I have done in more than 50 years with guns/wilderness and usually avoid "bear" questions as they tend to become a bit too competitive for my taste.

I will say that I HAVE packed a Ruger Redhawk, 5.5" .44M. for years, in some of the most populated bear country anywhere, but, I always felt that my skill level with a rifle was much superior and my various .338s, .375s, 9.3s and my .458WM were more effective than a handgun.

The last bear I killed succumbed to one brain shot with my old Remington Mod. 4, .25 Stevens and I am well aware that I can kill them with a handgun, but, MOST people I have seen in my decades of wilderness work CANNOT shoot a .44 or .41 as well as they can a .30-06, ergo, my earlier comments.

This coming month, I will be taking a guy bear hunting where I was born, raised and began working for the BCFS and BCF&W as well as learning from old timers and I intend to carry a pair of Brno ZG-47 rifles in 9.3x62 with my loads of the 286NP at 2500+. I have little interest in killing a bear or very much else now, but, will do some "guiding" for fellow BC residents when the mood strikes me.

In my years of bush work, I spent time hiking up salmon streams all along the BC coast and spawning streams for Kokanee in untouched wilderness in the Kootenays. I found that most bears fishing would ignore me, but, one can never trust one, so, I prefer a firearm with which I am most capable and that is all I am saying here.

One thing I long ago learned about guns, bush and so on, there is always more than one way to get things done and "best" is highly subjective.

 

[BRobertson]

I did NOT say anything about what I have done in more than 50 years with guns/wilderness and usually avoid "bear" questions as they tend to become a bit too competitive for my taste.

I will say that I HAVE packed a Ruger Redhawk, 5.5" .44M. for years, in some of the most populated bear country anywhere, but, I always felt that my skill level with a rifle was much superior and my various .338s, .375s, 9.3s and my .458WM were more effective than a handgun.

The last bear I killed succumbed to one brain shot with my old Remington Mod. 4, .25 Stevens and I am well aware that I can kill them with a handgun, but, MOST people I have seen in my decades of wilderness work CANNOT shoot a .44 or .41 as well as they can a .30-06, ergo, my earlier comments.

This coming month, I will be taking a guy bear hunting where I was born, raised and began working for the BCFS and BCF&W as well as learning from old timers and I intend to carry a pair of Brno ZG-47 rifles in 9.3x62 with my loads of the 286NP at 2500+. I have little interest in killing a bear or very much else now, but, will do some "guiding" for fellow BC residents when the mood strikes me.

In my years of bush work, I spent time hiking up salmon streams all along the BC coast and spawning streams for Kokanee in untouched wilderness in the Kootenays. I found that most bears fishing would ignore me, but, one can never trust one, so, I prefer a firearm with which I am most capable and that is all I am saying here.

One thing I long ago learned about guns, bush and so on, there is always more than one way to get things done and "best" is highly subjective.

Axel,

I too tend to stay out of these types of discussions, they come up weekly on castboolits.com !! Amazing how heated they get!!
I agree that this is all " subjective".

I am just thankful that I live in a place that I can choose to handgun hunt, and I also completely agree that it is definitely not for everyone!!

Bob

 

[luke moffat]

I always felt that my skill level with a rifle was much superior and my various .338s, .375s, 9.3s and my .458WM were more effective than a handgun.

The last bear I killed succumbed to one brain shot with my old Remington Mod. 4, .25 Stevens and I am well aware that I can kill them with a handgun, but, MOST people I have seen in my decades of wilderness work CANNOT shoot a .44 or .41 as well as they can a .30-06, ergo, my earlier comments.....



...One thing I long ago learned about guns, bush and so on, there is always more than one way to get things done and "best" is highly subjective.

I certainly fall into this camp. I know that I am far more accurate with a rifle than a handgun mainly cause I haven't taken nearly the time to become proficient with a handgun as I have a rifle. I likely shoot 50 rifle rounds for ever one handgun round. Just what my focus has been.

I certainly don't claim to have near the experience that AXEL or BRobertson have. Heck I have only been hunting grizzlies for less than 15 years now and only seen 20 or so killed in that timeframe. But none of them were shot with a handgun so of course I am going to be jaded towards rifles doing the job just cause thats all I know.

That said, I have no doubt that the 44 mag can get it done in the right hands. I just know that currently the hands that are typing this are better with a rifle than a handgun, but I hope to change that.

But for the time being I will be hauling a sub 5 pound 308 win with 200 grainers at 2500+ fps and a 20" barrel than a 3.25 pound Ruger Redhawk 44 mag.

Once I get to the point that I feel confident I can better protect myself with the pistol than the rifle given practice I may go that route. But really I just want to try handgun hunting in general just cause the logistics and handiness of a handgun in the field is appealing, but I will say when I pick up my ultralight .308 with a peep it sure feels handy as is and at 100 yards I can easily keep things well within the kill zone of any big game animal I might see while shooting off hand. Can't say the same about myself with a handgun.....yet

 

[luke moffat]

All of that aside, AZVINCE that is a nice looking handgun for sure!!! And you are likely much more proficient than me with it and I am sure it will serve you very well!!

Congrats on picking up a sweet piece!

 

[AZ Vince]

All of that aside, AZVINCE that is a nice looking handgun for sure!!! And you are likely much more proficient than me with it and I am sure it will serve you very well!!

Congrats on picking up a sweet piece!

Thank you sir.
I've carried, and used a handgun for a few years. I started back in the day when revolvers were the norm and not the exception.
With that said a handgun is never my first choice but it's something I can have on me no matter what I may be doing outdoors. I've got a model 58 for bipedal defense as I'm no longer mandated to carry a bottom feeder and can carry what I desire.

Vince

 

[307]

One of the more enlightening threads on the internet regarding bears, handguns, and bullets:

http://www.rokslide.com/forums/show...irst-(false)-black-bear-charge&highlight=.480

 

[TylerW]

lots of people have different opinions but mine is I'd rather have something rather that nothing. May it be a 9mm or 500S&W. And besides people say a handgun won't do any good, but was there not a old guy a few years back in Alaska that killed a bear in self defense with a buck pocket knife??

 

[VernAK]

Yes! Mr Moe did kill a brown bear with a folding buck knife but he certainly didn't leave the arena unscathed and he is an exceptionally hearty individual.

As mentioned, these debates arise frequently and last year when a young friend bought a 44 mag handgun for bears but when asked if he would buy a 44 mag rifle for a planned bear hunt he realized where I was coming from.

I like Axel's ideas and have a couple of the CZ 9.3x62 carbines. Luke also has a very light and serviceable rifle in the 84M and I carry a very similar rifle in 338 Federal as they weigh in very close to a large handgun.

 

[Mike21]

By bear gun I think you mean side arm right?

I tHink if you end up on the wrong end of a grizz it's going to be a chaotic event, from experience overseas in the military, firepower is king. It's hard to hit something that is moving in a stressful situation. My plan is hi capacity/rapid fire with as big of a caliber as you can afford to carry weight wise. Obviously if that's a long rifle then great but might not be as effective in your tent in the middle of the night.

Maybe some of you alaska guys know but didn't APD shoot the bear that ate grizzly man with a.40 glock a bunch of times, or is that folklore?

 

[hodgeman]

Maybe some of you alaska guys know but didn't APD shoot the bear that ate grizzly man with a.40 glock a bunch of times, or is that folklore?

Not APD...Rangers.... 11 40 cals out of Glock and 10 Brenneke slugs out of 2 870s.

Ranger Ellis was standing with ranger Gilliland and Willy Fulton to his left. Ranger Dalrymple was slightly ahead of Gilliland when Gilliland suddenly yells, Bear! while pointing to the right. Ranger Ellis states that he turned and "saw an adult bear moving toward the group about 20 feet away". All four begin yelling in hopes that the bear would see them and move away. Ranger Ellis then states that he "perceived that the bear was well aware of their presence and was stalking them". Ranger Ellis, armed with a 40 cal. handgun begins to fire at about the same time rangers Gilliland and Dalrymple, who were each armed with 12 gauge shotguns loaded with slugs also begin to shoot at the bear.

Ranger Ellis fires 11 times while rangers Gilliland and Dalrymple each fire 5 times, dropping the bear 12 feet away. "That was cutting it thin" stated Ellis. After about 10 seconds the bear dies and Willy Fulton then reportedly says "I want to look that bear in the eyes" and states that he is sure that this was the bear that chased him back to his plane earlier. (Ellis 2003, pg 3)

You can drop a bear with a handgun...but there are much, much better ways to do it.

 

[husky390]

Love me some old 57's and wish I had kept mine. Beautiful gun that I'm sure will do just fine taking down an Az grizzly.