Barrett owners, help!! POI shift.....

[Bobbyboe]

I've owned my fieldcraft for about 5 months now. It is chambered in .308win and is topped with a swfa 3-9 HD. Overall, I love the fit, finish and feel of the rifle. I've also made some observations on things I don't like too. I noticed a distinct and repeatible POI change from cold barrel shots to warm barrel shots. I've also noticed that when the barrel is hot the forend will have play (a gap) and will not be truly mated in the full length bed.

Has anyone else noticed these issues with their fieldcrafts? It is increadibly maddening trying to shoot this gun beyond 200 yards with the POI shift. The shift is always verticle , with the main group forming anywhere from 1 to 2 inches below the cold bore shot at 100 yards. This is megnafied at longer ranges.

Below are some photos from today's range session. The shots were all at 100.

Are these issues normal with Barrett? If not, what should I be doing? I feel that a POI change of 1 or 2 inches at 100 yards is excessive. Time to call Barrett?

For reference the green dots are 1".

UPDATE: See post #67 and 69.

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[Bobbyboe]

For reference, here are two groups that were shot extremely slow. I even pushed air through the barrel between shots with a air pump. These groups are much more uniform, with little verticle.

Am I asking too much of this rifle, or is there an issue?

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[carter33]

I have a Fieldcraft in 6.5 creedmor. It looks like you’re shooting 5 shot groups correct? I have been shooting 3 shot groups and am consistently under 1 moa accuracy. The rifle is a featherweight rifle meant for backpacking so they have very thin contour barrels that heat up quite quickly. I am guessing it is the 4th and 5th shot that start to increase in POI vertically?

If so maybe try 3 shot groups with 5 minutes in between strings and I bet your accuracy is better. It’s a niche rifle, maybe not the best for slinging rounds rapidly at the range but mine has been accurate and will be a joy to carry I’m sure.

 

[hodgeman]

My Fieldcraft definitely opens up when it gets hot- that's pretty typical of full length bedded rifles with thin contour barrels.

I have to shoot mine very slowly and avoid heating the barrel or I don't get best accuracy. When I take my time, groups are generally one ragged hole.

 

[Bobbyboe]

Carter, no, after the first shot the groups settle, drop. Also, if I give significant time between shots it'll group.

Guess I was curious if anyone else noticed the point of impact shift between cold and warm barrel. If so, how big of a shift have they experienced?

 

[Formidilosus]

My Fieldcraft definitely opens up when it gets hot- that's pretty typical of full length bedded rifles with thin contour barrels.

I have to shoot mine very slowly and avoid heating the barrel or I don't get best accuracy. When I take my time, groups are generally one ragged hole.

This is incorrect. 3 rounds, 5 rounds, 10 rounds, 30 rounds it doesn’t matter- the rifle will continue to put rounds within its true cone. If you have a barrel that “walks”, you have a rifle that needs to be fixed.

Guess I was curious if anyone else noticed the point of impact shift between cold and warm barrel. If so, how big of a shift have they experienced?

No, no POI should be happening. I have shot better than a dozen Fieldcrafts- all have shot 10-20 rounds groups of 1.6moa or less. That’s shooting 10-20 rounds as fast as you can rechamber and have a clean trigger press, I.E- barrel is sizzling.


There is is something wrong. If it is absolutely repeatable, every single time, and you are positive it isn’t “cold shooter”, then it is the rifle. Have you check torque on the action screws? Factory spec is quite tight. Have you checked to make sure the bedding and pillars are clean and free of compound in the pillars?

 

[rblosser]

Have you checked action screw torque? My groups started to open up after a few hundred rounds. I had to re torque and all was good again.

 

[Bobbyboe]

Form,

The screws are torqued to farctory recommendation. In addition, there doesn't appear to be any binding or material on any bedding surface.

The pattern seems very repeatible. Cold shot high, group below. I know they aren't 10 round groups, but still, a pattern is emerging. When the barrel is warm it'll shoot sub 1" 5 shot groups, without the vertical string. I will try again next range trip and document better.

And ideas on the forend/barrel separating while hot? This seems the most worrysome, and to me screams binding. This only is observable after about 15-20 rounds shot in relatively quick succession. I'll try to better describe the issue. Since the rifle if full length bedded there is absolutely no play along the entire length of the forend. After 15-20 shots you can push straight up on the tip of the forend and see upward movement to the barrel. Simple terms, there's a gap. After the barrel completely cools this movement and gap is no longer present. Very weird and concerning.

Ideas?

 

[duchntr]

My 6.5 is consistent from cold to hot. First thought that came to mind was your mag box is binding and not allowing your action to fully set. Mine was a hair too long so I hit it with a file and shortened it up.

 

[flinginairos]

Interesting. In for info. I haven't had a range day yet with my new Fieldcraft. Hoping it does ok lol.

 

[Bobbyboe]

I'd like to give an update. I decided to reach out to Barrett directly. They made a few suggestions and requested I shoot the rifle again (torque settings). In addition, they are going to have me send the rifle back to the factory to look at it. Before doing so, I made it clear that the gun will shoot their moa guarantee when cold. They replied saying they still want to see it. In addition, they provided the factory test target, which showed a .678 3 shot group with 185gr Lapua ammo.

I am pleased with their quick response and willingness to look at the rifle. Not sure what the outcome will be, but I'm sure happy with their service.

 

[JeffRaines]

My 6.5 is consistent from cold to hot. First thought that came to mind was your mag box is binding and not allowing your action to fully set. Mine was a hair too long so I hit it with a file and shortened it up.

Ah, so its like a Kimber. Interesting.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

Ah, so its like a Kimber. Interesting.

Not just kimber. Remington 700, model 7.. Winchester 70.. all adl mag box do this.

 

[TNHunter]

Please keep us posted on the progress... I just bought a Fieldcraft in 6.5 yesterday. Thx, good luck with the issue and Merry Christmas


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[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

OTE=Formidilosus;1079329]This is incorrect. 3 rounds, 5 rounds, 10 rounds, 30 rounds it doesn’t matter- the rifle will continue to put rounds within its true cone. If you have a barrel that “walks”, you have a rifle that needs to be fixed.

Your statement is 100 percent incorrect. I’ve read your posts and I shake my head every time you mention this. To say that a rifle barrel that shifts a bit from an absolutely cold barrel to a “sizzling” hot barrel should be scrapped throws out over a hundred years of documented evidence from US Army Abridean Proving ground tests, PO Ackleys accounts and countless others. POI shifts from “cold bore” rounds is normal especially from thin contoured rifles. The metallurgy science......heat expansion of steel....alone would allow shifts in POI from cold bore to a hot barrel.

I’ve personally built over 200 bolt rifles from ultra thin barrels to heavy varmint contours using top end barrel makers products and they all will have somewhat of a POI shift from cold to hot;shooting 3, 5, 10
or 20 round groups it does not matter.

To the original poster, your shifts in POI on your Fieldcraft appears to be a touch excessive. I own two 6.5C’s, a 6.5-55, 7-08, 270, 30/06 and have put Lilja barrels on them as well in 280ai and a 270-280ai that are all full length bedded as Barrett does. ALL cold bore POI’s are within 1/2 - 1 MOA from extreme average outside group edge of my group tests. I find the thinner contour short actions to be at the farther extremes on that 1/2-1 moa cold bore shifts as well.

Having POI shifts from the mean aggregate center of your groups is perfectly normal, the key is to shoot your rifle enough to know those distances to compensate for pin point accuracy. 1/2-1 MOA is not going to make a hill of beans difference between 100-300 yds but it is the satisfaction of knowing your rifle.

 

[Formidilosus]

Your statement is 100 percent incorrect. I’ve read your posts and I shake my head every time you mention this. To say that a rifle barrel that shifts a bit from an absolutely cold barrel to a “sizzling” hot barrel should be scrapped throws out over a hundred years of documented evidence from US Army Abridean Proving ground test trials, PO Ackleys accounts and countless others. POI shifts from “cold bore” rounds is normal especially from thin contoured rifles. The metallurgy science......heat expansion of steel....alone would allow shifts in POI from cold bore to a hot barrel. Your statement is false! Stop spreading mis-information I’ve built over 200 bolt rifles from ultra thin barrels to heavy varmint contours and they all will have somewhat of a POI shift from cold to hot;shooting 3, 5, 10
or 20 round groups it does not matter.
.

Ok. I’ll bite.



You built over 200 bolt rifles. How much have you actually shot them? How much have you actually tested to try and disprove your beliefs? Show me the “documented evidence” from ABERDEEN Proving Grounds or Ackley that show a “cold bore shift” not “clean bore shift”, from lightweight barrels....? While you’re at it- show me where they had properly stress relieved barrels, and statistically significant shot group sizes? Bedded actions? Modern match projectiles?

That “heat expansion of steel”. How does it know to only expand in one direction in a stress relieved item?




Maybe you you can help me out here... which one is “cold bore”...?





































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Now I’ve only shot/seen shot a bit over 70,000 rounds from six people since December 1st... Only shot out two barrels personally, and only about half those rounds were logged for POI and shot at 100m or farther. 5x Elcans went down (100%), 1x Leupold (100%), and 1x Trijicon RMR (20%)..... I’ve only been directly involved in +/- five tests/research projects directly dealing with this subject and I t takes about ten minutes to get from my “office” to the range....


So all of this is new to new.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

Let’s do this math. 70,0000rnds since December 1st? Is that this last Dec 1st as in 24 days ago? That equals 2916.6 rnds a day. If you are shooting or watching 24hrs a day that 121.5 rnds and hour, 1 rnd every 30 seconds. These numbers represent non stop shooting 24 hrs a day/24 days straight.

I seriously doubt your claims but whatever if you say so.

Yes my barrels are triple stress relieved. These rifles are built for customers. So to answer your question, no not every rifle I have personally tested extensively. How would I know what rounds are true cold shots on your particular targets. I was not there.

But you are trying to tell this entire fourm with your vast experience that most of us are “lost” and have no clue what we are talking about with cold bore shifts and our barrels all need to be scrapped?

Good luck with that. Cold bore shifts are in fact a normal occurrence. Good luck with your extensive shooting experience.

I’m about 10 mins from the machine shop to the range as well. Though you’ve got me beat on the amount of rounds you are putting down range. I put a few rounds down range a month (nothing close to the numbers you claim to do or witness in 24 days 2 rounds a minute!!) but also spend my time building rifles as well.

 

[Formidilosus]

Let’s do this math. 70,0000rnds since December 1st? Is that this last Dec 1st as in 24 days ago? That equals 2916.6 rnds a day. If you are shooting or watching 24hrs a day that 121.5 rnds and hour, 1 rnd every 30 seconds. These numbers represent non stop shooting 24 hrs a day/24 days straight.

I seriously doubt your claims but whatever if you say so.

Reading isn’t your strong suit, is it?

How would I know what rounds are true cold shots on your particular targets. I was not there.

But cold bore shots differ, right? So shouldn’t they be noticeable?

But you are trying to tell this entire fourm with your vast experience that most of us are “lost” and have no clue what we are talking about with cold bore shifts and our barrels all need to be scrapped?

No, not lost. But if you think that a noticeable shift from first to second shot is “normal”.... yes, you have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

And lying about your experience is what you are good as well.

 

[CGW_6_actual]

Clean bore to fouled bore definitely has a difference, but fouled cold bore to fouled warm (not overheated hot, or temp sensitive powder in a round sitting in a hot chamber) does NOT have a shift unless there is a mechanical problem with the weapon. Sometimes it is a mechanical issue, 97% of the time it's the shooter. This is coming from a professional shooter with the B4 ASI, as well as having PRS match experience, hunting, etc. Not sure if I can link to an outside forum, but I can get you a good read on it if allowed.

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And to eliminate another variable, have you locked it into a solid rest and fired any groups like that?