Barrel Burn Out

[Jake Leibke]

What causes it?
Is it the rifling wearing or more the throat?


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[83cj-7]

Not to be smart, but shooting it causes it to burn out. Most accuracy loss come from the throat erosion. Rifling wears some but usually a barrel can be “set back” which creates a new throat.

 

[Jake Leibke]

Not to be smart, but shooting it causes it to burn out. Most accuracy loss come from the throat erosion. Rifling wears some but usually a barrel can be “set back” which creates a new throat.

So what is the highest cause of throat erosion? Excessive pressure? High speeds? Why do some calibers “burn out” faster then others?


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[Pickettpuncher]

High speeds, burning a lot of powder in tight bores, shooting them when they’re hot.

 

[83cj-7]

High speeds usually mean lots of powder. Lots of powder, especially down a small bore will eat throats.

Interestingly I have shot out 3 .243 barrels within 900 rounds when I was using H4350. On my new .243 barrel I have switched to much slower H1000 and I have 1700 rounds on this one and it’s still shooting .1s at 100 and less than 1/4 MOA to 600 yards. This convinced me that the powder choice can drastically change barrel life.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

High speeds usually mean lots of powder. Lots of powder, especially down a small bore will eat throats.

Interestingly I have shot out 3 .243 barrels within 900 rounds when I was using H4350. On my new .243 barrel I have switched to much slower H1000 and I have 1700 rounds on this one and it’s still shooting .1s at 100 and less than 1/4 MOA to 600 yards. This convinced me that the powder choice can drastically change barrel life.

What bullet did you use to kill the 243.

 

[83cj-7]

Here is a cool calculator:

Pierre van der Walt on Cartridges, Rifles & Hunting is under construction

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pierrevanderwalt.com

 

[83cj-7]

I have only used the Hornady 105 A-Max

 

[HighUintas]

A really smart old smith on another forum, who passed away in the last year, said that a barrel ends up being "burned out" by carbon building up and causing constrictions, basically creating a bore that has tight spots. He said this is different than a when bench shooter is done with a barrel. They will quit a barrel when accuracy isn't at their highly precise requirements anymore and is usually caused by throat wear. The barrel burning out he is referring to is when accuracy really goes to pot and can't be brought back, no matter how much scrubbing you do and setting the barrel back won't help either, because of the tight spots in the barrel.

I can't remember for sure, I but I think he said the carbon gets cooked into the pores or molecular structure of the metal or something. So, it can't be scrubbed out. I'm not sure if it's very visible though.

There was a couple of competition shooters who agreed with him and I think they all did some testing or something and possibly worked with a barrel maker and that's how they knew this.

This is all just stuff I'm restating and it might not be completely correct but I feel that they're credible sources of info.

It is interesting, nonetheless.

 

[BRTreedogs]

I can't remember who or where.
But awhile back some one thru out that on Magnum cartridges if you are firing consecutively.
The 5th rd does more damage then the first 4 combined. Based on heat.

 

[83cj-7]

I can't remember who or where.
But awhile back some one thru out that on Magnum cartridges if you are firing consecutively.
The 5th rd does more damage then the first 4 combined. Based on heat.

I’d say that absolutely true. Some people won’t agree, but a barrel cooling device combined with time before shots can really extend barrel life. Using this method, my buddy got north of 2000 rounds out of his last .220 swift barrel.

 

[Lawnboi]

If you’re really curious you should listen to whatever podcasts you can find with Frank green from bartlein on them. He went over it in a recent podcast but I don’t remember with who. Everyday sniper, rifles only, and miles to matches I think he’s been on lately. I believe it was the rifles only one, he has had two with him recently.

 

[Mojave]

My personal experience with the 6.5x57 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6mm BR, 300 Winchester and 7.82 Warbird is that velocity kills.

The worst I ever saw was the 7.82 warbird. We killed it in 300 rounds.

Things like the 6mm BR seem to make it over 1500.

Accuracy will shift multiple times at different intervals depending on the cartridge.

Carbon build up may or may not wreck a barrel. This can normally be cleaned out.

Bullet guilding material may also wreck a barrel. This can also be cleaned out.

Either carbon or guilding material brought to "almost" zero will need to be built back up to some point to restore accuracy in heavy used barrels for instance a 308 at 5000 rounds. Accuracy will never be what it was at the peak. Worked on the M-249 project when it was it infancy in the Navy. We chewed up a lot of barrels, and found that heavy cleaning would bring them back to usable. But not before you rebuilt some level of carbon and guilding metal.

Speed of shooting as someone else said increases wear exponentially.

I used to shoot a lot of F-Class and 1000 yard matches. Never warn out a hunting weight barrel, but have turned several heavy match barrels into tomato stakes by using them up.

Someone who is serious about match shooting will destroy a barrel or two in year.

People who live in prairie dog towns, and professional cullers (roo shooters) generally shoot the barrel out of a rifle a couple times a year as well.

 

[General RE LEE]

This is the throat of my 6.5 PRC with about 175 rounds. Gun shoots fine but more fire cracking than my Tikka 6.5 Creedmoor with 750 rounds.

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

My personal experience with the 6.5x57 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6mm BR, 300 Winchester and 7.82 Warbird is that velocity kills.

The worst I ever saw was the 7.82 warbird. We killed it in 300 rounds.

Things like the 6mm BR seem to make it over 1500.

Accuracy will shift multiple times at different intervals depending on the cartridge.

Carbon build up may or may not wreck a barrel. This can normally be cleaned out.

Bullet guilding material may also wreck a barrel. This can also be cleaned out.

Either carbon or guilding material brought to "almost" zero will need to be built back up to some point to restore accuracy in heavy used barrels for instance a 308 at 5000 rounds. Accuracy will never be what it was at the peak. Worked on the M-249 project when it was it infancy in the Navy. We chewed up a lot of barrels, and found that heavy cleaning would bring them back to usable. But not before you rebuilt some level of carbon and guilding metal.

Speed of shooting as someone else said increases wear exponentially.

I used to shoot a lot of F-Class and 1000 yard matches. Never warn out a hunting weight barrel, but have turned several heavy match barrels into tomato stakes by using them up.

Someone who is serious about match shooting will destroy a barrel or two in year.

People who live in prairie dog towns, and professional cullers (roo shooters) generally shoot the barrel out of a rifle a couple times a year as well.

Great response @Mojave. I had to reply when you mentioned the Warbird.
Usually, the answer is very simple. If you are shooting an overbored, ultra hyper speed, mega magnum… you’re gonna wear out your barrel quicker. Along with brass and other things.
I got a Warbird in 2003. I was in my 20s and it was the peak of the monster magnum, speed kills fad. I started out shooting the hottest load imaginable, backed off, kept backing off, and after a couple seasons of dicking with it, I ended up shooting a “mid-range” load recommended by Lazzeroni. Still shot a 180gr 3500! Ridiculous.
So what’s the point? My barrel lasted and my brass life went from 2-3 shots to 8-10 shots because I backed the load way off. Looking back, I’d bet $ that @Mojave is right, that if I’d kept shooting 104gr… my barrel would have lasted a few hundred rounds. My barrel was still good at >10yrs when I re-barreled it to a twist where I could shoot a 230.
So… a .308 is gonna have more barrel life than a 300WM. A 300WM is gonna have more barrel life than a monster 30cal. Question is, is the speed, energy, etc. worth it?

 

[Wrench]

This is the throat of my 6.5 PRC with about 175 rounds. Gun shoots fine but more fire cracking than my Tikka 6.5 Creedmoor with 750 rounds.

That's pretty normal. Lot's of guns have alligator throat and shoot well for quite a while.

I've seen tubes that shot 1.5moa and were basically smooth bore for the first several inches.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

Avg life of a 30/06 and 6.5cm with factory ammo?

 

[Pickettpuncher]

Avg life of a 30/06 and 6.5cm with factory ammo?

5k+ rounds

 

[Jake Leibke]

Thanks for all the replies.

I’m asking because I’m thinking about putting together a 22-243. Wanting took shot the heavier Bullets out of it, looking at the 88 Eldm. Most guys I read were shooting lighter Bullets really fast and only getting maybe 1k rounds out off a barrel.
From what most are saying here I could use a shower powder behind the heavier bullet and theoretically get longer barrel life it seems.


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[Wrench]

It's not gonna live long, that's overbore as heck....but it should be fun on the way. If you are hoping for peak accuracy, expect to change seating length about every 100 rds.