Barrel Break in Procedure

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

I'm going to tell you....you best be careful with these over bore capacity type rounds and the 6.5PRC is a classic example of one. If you don't keep up with the cleaning and you let the barrel get away from you....I'm going to guarantee you that you will have problems! I had two guys back in February....neither guy cleaned the gun. One guy for 280 or so rounds fired thru it. Took bore scope pictures of it and called and complained about the accuracy falling off and that he thought it was bad steel from the erosion/wear that he was seeing.

For one....he wasn't seeing erosion. Most people when they look down the bore they don't know what they are looking at. What he was seeing was the amount of carbon build up. I got him to clean the rifle and I told him how to do it because of how bad it was by letting it go the way he did for 280 rounds! So to my surprise he cleaned it and took it to a PRS match that next weekend. He said accuracy came right back and he won all of the long range portion of the match as well. Longest distances he shot was 1250 yards. Was over all match winner.

I've seen too many guys already putting 120ish round thru the gun in one day and they have a two day match to shoot and they will not clean the gun that night before the next day. Then they wonder why they're having issues.

I'll also say this....I've seen shooters as well as ammo makers let the 6.5PRC barrels get away from them and they've wrecked the barrels in as little as 400+ rounds. Take care of them and they can go around 800-900 rounds in 6.5PRC.

I will also say this....in calibers where you have over bore capacity cartridges vs. bore size....the carbon can keep building up and for one cause accuracy issues and another even though it's rare it can happen but you can blow up the gun. Not our barrel but last October a shooter put 1000 rounds thru a 338 Lapua and didn't clean it for even a single round. The gun came a part. Shooter wasn't harmed. By not cleaning it....the bore will tighten up/restrict especially at the throat of the chamber area. There could've been other issues with the barrel itself that compounded the problem but I do know that not cleaning it isn't going to help anything either.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

Thanks Frank glad to see you joined up!
I've learned a LOT from you on the Hide, you saved me from ruining a barrel that I was about to brush up with Iosso bore paste.

@slowelk
if sample size of one isn't enough for you then you'd be wise to take Mr Greens advice..
He knows more about barrels than all of us on this forum combined

 

[Rob5589]

Welcome Frank! It seems much of the data comes from the PRS genre; high rates of fire, hot days, over bore cartridges pushed to max, and beyond, velocities, over subsequent days. How would you compare those elements to the guy with his lower round, slow rate of fire, average loaded 30/06?

 

[Frank Green]

Thanks Frank glad to see you joined up!
I've learned a LOT from you on the Hide, you saved me from ruining a barrel that I was about to brush up with Iosso bore paste.

@slowelk
if sample size of one isn't enough for you then you'd be wise to take Mr Greens advice..
He knows more about barrels than all of us on this forum combined

Your welcome bud!

Never heard of this forum....so thanks the guy for asking me to come here as well!

 

[PredatorSlayer]

It's a waste of time...and these days, hard to find ammunition.

Its a waste of time because it doesn’t make any difference for most barrels. 100% overrated.

 

[Frank Green]

Welcome Frank! It seems much of the data comes from the PRS genre; high rates of fire, hot days, over bore cartridges pushed to max, and beyond, velocities, over subsequent days. How would you compare those elements to the guy with his lower round, slow rate of fire, average loaded 30/06?

That’s the thing.....and you started to say it but just go a little further.

Let’s start with the 308Win. It’s almost the perfect case capacity and bore size of the barrel. Take care of it and I’ve seen plenty of our barrels go 10k rounds plus and still hold 1/2moa. That’s shooting 50 rounds at a time so 5 x 10 shot groups. Then they usually clean them but have gone as many as 150 rounds in between cleaning. This is at ammunition/bullet makers using our ammunition test barrels. They monitor everything.

Now make that barrel in a 300Win Mag. Even at the same rate of fire etc...and the barrel is usually toast at about 1200 rounds. Could be less could go a little more. Your dumping almost double the amount of powder down the same bore size.

Stay with the 308win case capacity but neck the case down to a 6mm. By doing this you just basically did the same thing. You just turned that 6mm into a magnum round by reducing the bore size. I did the math one time a while ago....but the 6mm is like 20 to 25% smaller on bore size. So in another word you can say you increased the case capacity about 20% or more. Doesn’t sound like much but it is. Ammunition test barrels in 243Win are junk at about 800ish rounds. That’s in controlled conditions. I hate 243W. When ever we do testing ourselves and where working with the material we chamber them up in 243w for that very reason. You can shoot a lot of rounds with out taking a beating like in 300wm and you end basically getting the same data.

Heat and pressure kill. How hot is too hot? If you cannot hold your hand on to the barrel....it’s too hot! Your killing it. No way around it.

Same with powder....I stay away from the double based powders. Yes they can give you an extra 50 to say 150fps but the trade off is they burn at a higher flame temperature. So back to being harder on the barrel. On the low side on a center fire rifle the flame temperature at the throat is approx. 2200 F to as high as 4000 F or so. So I stay with single based powders.

Think of this guys....

1# of powder equals about a 170 rounds fired thru a 308 Win.
1# of powder equals about 92 rounds thru a 300 Win Mag.
1# of powder equals about 78 rounds fired thru a 338 Lapua Mag.

The type of shooting you are doing....like PRS, F Class etc...where you get say 10-20 rounds off in some cases pretty quick...it is what it is. Take that rifle prairie dogging and you get to a nice dog town and the shooting is heavy and fast (I’ve seen guys running a bolt gun so fast you couldn’t touch the receiver it was so hot. Now imagine how hot the barrel was). Rate of fire effects barrel life.

Same with cleaning....don’t keep up with the cleaning and not to mention how you clean....can have an adverse effect on barrel life.

Not talked about a lot but does have an effect...the type of bullets. Believe it or not a bullet with a longer bearing surface like a 155gr 30cal bullet vs a 190gr 30 cal bullet. That longer bearing surface will effect barrel wear and in the end barrel life.

Everything is a trade off guys....you want to go fast in a car....as my friend Dave says....”Cost money to go fast!” Guns and shooting are no different. You want a higher bc bullet and push it at a higher velocity and now throw in the other factors....cost money to go fast.

Later, Frank

 

[PantherCity]

So we’re supposed to shoot light, low BC bullets with slow powders in grandpa cartridges at a low rate of fire and clean all the time? Buzzkill.

I’m just kidding, but shooting lots of long heavy bullets real fast and never cleaning seems more fun.


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[McD18]

I just shoot the shit out the gun and call it good... I like calibers with a long barrel life that are also affordable (relatively). More time behind the gun is mo better.

 

[B23]

Hey Frank, thanks for joining.

Everyone doesn't always have to agree but I always know you base the information you put forward off of being in the industry and seeing this stuff on a regular basis everyday for a lot of years so just on sure volume alone you can't help but have a better perspective and broader knowledge than the rest of us. Hopefully you'll have time to contribute and post on a regular basis.

 

[xFREDx]

Don't know what is correct and not correct. i have never done a barrel break in. I shoot a few rounds, no cleaning, then sight in and call it good. Never had any accuracy issues that wasn't on me.

 

[tdhanses]

Personally a barrel is a consumable to me, doesn’t mean don’t take care of it but shoot it till it needs replaced and replace.

Frank makes perfect sense but I’ll hot rod my gun and my barrel may not last as long as if I didn’t, we just have to be aware of this factor. I expect my 300wsm to have a barrel life of around 900-1100 rds.

As far as breaking a barrel in, like I said earlier, I put around 40rds through it and clean and then shoot it to around 150rds or another 110rds. Then I feel my barrel is at a point to finalize load development. Clean when accuracy falls off.

 

[Frank Green]

Personally a barrel is a consumable to me, doesn’t mean don’t take care of it but shoot it till it needs replaced and replace.

Frank makes perfect sense but I’ll hot rod my gun and my barrel may not last as long as if I didn’t, we just have to be aware of this factor. I expect my 300wsm to have a barrel life of around 900-1100 rds.

As far as breaking a barrel in, like I said earlier, I put around 40rds through it and clean and then shoot it to around 150rds or another 110rds. Then I feel my barrel is at a point to finalize load development. Clean when accuracy falls off.

Correct....barrels are consumables! No way around it!

Guys in F Class shooting the 300WSM....about a 1k rounds and they're pulling them.

 

[Dcrafton]

Correct....barrels are consumables! No way around it!

Guys in F Class shooting the 300WSM....about a 1k rounds and they're pulling them.

I enjoyed your information, gives me more to think about. But I shoot a bunch, not as much as you but probably more than most. I don’t shoot for competition at all. My experience is when I shoot out a barrel (my 6.5x284) I went from a 1/4” gun and now it’s a 3/4” gun with well over 1k rounds, close to 2500. I understand what you are saying but most people that can have a 3/4” rifle it is still an awesome rifle. I have never broke in a barrel per a standard. I do take care of my rifles but I usually clean at 2 points, first is when my rifle tells me to (groups open up) second is at the end of my shooting season. Keep writing as I’m enjoying your knowledge.


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[Frank Green]

I enjoyed your information, gives me more to think about. But I shoot a bunch, not as much as you but probably more than most. I don’t shoot for competition at all. My experience is when I shoot out a barrel (my 6.5x284) I went from a 1/4” gun and now it’s a 3/4” gun with well over 1k rounds, close to 2500. I understand what you are saying but most people that can have a 3/4” rifle it is still an awesome rifle. I have never broke in a barrel per a standard. I do take care of my rifles but I usually clean at 2 points, first is when my rifle tells me to (groups open up) second is at the end of my shooting season. Keep writing as I’m enjoying your knowledge.


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Right...pay attention to the gun. Everyone has a different accuracy requirement/spec that they need.

When I say a barrel is toast on a F Class gun....what I'm saying is it won't hold 1/2moa or better but might still hold 3/4 moa and for some....that's just fine and the barrel can go an extra amount of rounds for the barrel life.

Also pay attention to your guns....if it shoots good at short range (say 300 yards and less) but once you start getting to 500 yards and further...if you see your scores going down a little (not holding the X count on the target) or your seeing more vertical stringing....that's a sign that the barrel is on it's last legs.

Your welcome on the knowledge thing!

 

[Harvey_NW]

Perfect timing, I just sent my first Bartlein off to a smith for a Tikka build. @Frank Green thanks for the info drop, can't wait to shoot!

 

[rayporter]

i always factor in an extra quarter a shot for the next barrel. if components cost me .50 cents then it costs me .75 cents a shot. the next round of consumables will cost a lot more! probably wont get by with a buck a shot.

 

[wind gypsy]

Welcome Frank! It seems much of the data comes from the PRS genre; high rates of fire, hot days, over bore cartridges pushed to max, and beyond, velocities, over subsequent days. How would you compare those elements to the guy with his lower round, slow rate of fire, average loaded 30/06?

Most of the top national PRS guys burn less than 33 grains of powder per shot these days.

 

[Frank Green]

Most of the top national PRS guys burn less than 33 grains of powder per shot these days.

On what caliber?

There are a lot of guys running 22 Creedmoor....try around 40gr of powder and more depending on what the actual load is.

6CM your in the low 40gr of powder.

If your running a 6GT then I'll say 34ish grains of powder.

If your running a 6BRA then I'll agree and say your in the upper 20's to a low 30gr powder charge.

Seen several guys at a match last summer....running 22CM. Didn't clean the barrel after the first day of shooting (put 120 rounds thru the guns)....they started getting random bullets blowing up etc...so here they are pulling bore snakes thru the barrels before the next stage to do a quick cleaning job on it. Next stage runs like a watch. They go to the next stage after that....and bam...a bullet blows up. So back to pulling a bore snake thru the barrel (I hate bore snakes as well).

They now have backed off the twist and that has helped bullet failure some but they've come to realize they need to clean the barrels more often with rounds like that. Too me...no different then the 6.5PRC and similar rounds.

Bullet failure can be caused not just by having a bullet problem....but from not cleaning, too much velocity and too much bullet RPM.

My hard line in the sand is 300k bullet rpm...bullet failure is a guarantee to start showing it's ugly face. I'll even say upper 200k rpms and it will start to happen. Especially when the throat starts to get rough in the bore. The bullet is going to take more of a beating.

Simple forumla..... velocity x 720 divide by twist = bullet RPM

So say 3100fps. x 720 / 7 twist = 318,857 rpm. Your on borrowed time!

Again we all want to go fast and at times I'm no exception but it's gonna cost us some where!

Later, Frank

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

On what caliber?

There are a lot of guys running 22 Creedmoor....try around 40gr of powder and more depending on what the actual load is.

6CM your in the low 40gr of powder.

If your running a 6GT then I'll say 34ish grains of powder.

If your running a 6BRA then I'll agree and say your in the upper 20's to a low 30gr powder charge.

Seen several guys at a match last summer....running 22CM. Didn't clean the barrel after the first day of shooting (put 120 rounds thru the guns)....they started getting random bullets blowing up etc...so here they are pulling bore snakes thru the barrels before the next stage to do a quick cleaning job on it. Next stage runs like a watch. They go to the next stage after that....and bam...a bullet blows up. So back to pulling a bore snake thru the barrel (I hate bore snakes as well).

They now have backed off the twist and that has helped bullet failure some but they've come to realize they need to clean the barrels more often with rounds like that. Too me...no different then the 6.5PRC and similar rounds.

Bullet failure can be caused not just by having a bullet problem....but from not cleaning, too much velocity and too much bullet RPM.

My hard line in the sand is 300k bullet rpm...bullet failure is a guarantee to start showing it's ugly face. I'll even say upper 200k rpms and it will start to happen. Especially when the throat starts to get rough in the bore. The bullet is going to take more of a beating.

Simple forumla..... velocity x 720 divide by twist = bullet RPM

So say 3100fps. x 720 / 7 twist = 318,857 rpm. Your on borrowed time!

Again we all want to go fast and at times I'm no exception but it's gonna cost us some where!

Later, Frank

Good info Frank
I have an 8 twist 30 nosler that I just built to handle monos and 245s but its loving the 220 LRHT Bergers.
I ran your formula and with my velocity of 3025 I'm around 275000 rpm, do you think this combo will be problematic as I get a few rounds through it?

 

[wind gypsy]

On what caliber?

6mm. BR variants rule the roost these days dont they?

I was just pointing out that the folks at the top of the game seem to have found that moderate consistency beats over-bored ballistics in most cases.

 

[Frank Green]

6mm. BR variants rule the roost these days dont they?

I was just pointing out that the folks at the top of the game seem to have found that moderate consistency beats over-bored ballistics in most cases.

I agree with ya...and something I've pushed for a while. I tell guys an extra 100fps isn't going to help ya win the match. Doesn't matter if it's a PRS or a F class match etc...

I'm building my 14 year old a 6GT right now. Waiting for the action/stock to come back from Manners as we speak here.

I love my 6BRA I put together as well! Nice little hammer to play with but it's a single shot action. Wife or kid can use it if we shoot a F class match.