Arrows kicking to the left after 20 yards

[SlimTim]

Hi all,

I recently picked up a new 70# PSE EVL 32. I’ve got it paper tuned at 3 yards pretty well. It Seems to be shooting nice bullet holes but I’ve noticed the arrows are tending nock left for shots greater than 20 yards. Any ideas?

I’m shooting 250 spine arrows with 125gn points. Not sure if that important.

cheers,
Tim.

 

[Keith Stone]

Rule out fletching contact first then take a look at your arrow spine. What is your draw length? My guess is your a bit over spined unless you’ve got a 31”+ draw. 50gr brass insert would probably put you in the sweet spot with that 125 head. Have you bare shaft tested yet?

 

[JW7]

Rule out fletching contact first then take a look at your arrow spine. What is your draw length? My guess is your a bit over spined unless you’ve got a 31”+ draw. 50gr brass insert would probably put you in the sweet spot with that 125 head. Have you bare shaft tested yet?

I agree with Stone, you seem over spined. I have had this happen, and it can be drop rest timing and fletch contact. Check that first. If it’s not that, keep working the paper tune further out from 3 yards. It may take several more yards of tuning to get your flight right. If all fails, add weighted inserts or change arrows. Good luck, and let us know what works.

 

[Kularrow]

How much insert weight are running?

 

[Samdemarais]

Rule out fletching contact first then take a look at your arrow spine. What is your draw length? My guess is your a bit over spined unless you’ve got a 31”+ draw. 50gr brass insert would probably put you in the sweet spot with that 125 head. Have you bare shaft tested yet?

Isn’t tail left for a righty a weak reaction?

 

[Samdemarais]

Hi all,

I recently picked up a new 70# PSE EVL 32. I’ve got it paper tuned at 3 yards pretty well. It Seems to be shooting nice bullet holes but I’ve noticed the arrows are tending nock left for shots greater than 20 yards. Any ideas?

I’m shooting 250 spine arrows with 125gn points. Not sure if that important.

cheers,
Tim.

I would screw on a fixed blade broadhead and shoot it at 30 yards and see where it hits compared to field points. Make adjustments from there. I am pretty a positive that tail left for a righty is a weak reaction but there is no way you are weak with a 250 spine so it must be something else like center shot, grip, face pressure, vane contact

 

[Wrench]

Paper it at 6 feet and work back. Papering at 9 feet may be in perfect paradox....but closer or farther back may show the issue.

 

[Keith Stone]

Isn’t tail left for a righty a weak reaction?

You are correct but with a paper tune at 3 yards I’m not sure how he is identifying a nock left at greater yardage so with the information he provided fletching contact and incorrect spine would be the first two things I would rule out.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I’ve got it paper tuned at 3 yards pretty well. It Seems to be shooting nice bullet holes but I’ve noticed the arrows are tending nock left for shots greater than 20 yards.

How are you deducing the nock left tendency at distance? I assume you're looking at impact angle in the target, not actually shooting through paper at 20+ yds. Impact angle can be misleading due to inconsistencies in the target medium. Shooting a bareshaft alongside a fletched shaft or a fixed blade broadhead alongside a field point at distance will tell the true story. If your arrows truly are flying nock left, the bareshaft will land to the right of the fletched shaft and the broadhead will land to the right of the field point.

Paper tuning is good for getting started but isn't a complete replacement for bareshaft or broadhead tuning. I always shoot through paper at two distances (6 and 20-ish ft) to confirm my tear before making any adjustments.

Conventional wisdom (nock left tear = arrow is too weak, nock right tear = arrow is too stiff for a right-handed shooter) would say your arrow might be weak (assuming you are indeed a righty and truly are getting nock left flight). But 250 spine would actually be on the stiff side (per spine charts) unless your arrows are 30+" long with really heavy inserts. I think the conventional spine vs. tear advice is a holdover from the days of traditional bows shot with fingers and isn't applicable to a compound bow shot with a mechanical release. I highly doubt that arrow spine is causing any problems for you.

 

[wapitibob]

The nock end doesn't just start moving left at 20 yards unless the wind is pushing it.

paper tune at 2 distances

 

[SlimTim]

Thanks so much everyone. Looks like I’ve got some work ahead of me.
Im identifying the nock left using slo-mo video and target impact angle.
I suspected spine issue. Perhaps that’s the easiest to tweak by just adding a little weight up front.
when I'm broadhead tuning do I just do that the same as normal paper tuning? Won’t the broadhead tear the paper and make it hard to see what the tear looks like? Maybe I’ll just give it a go.
I’ll start with some paper tuning at different distances. How can I determine vane contact? I’ve heard lipstick on the vanes?

 

[SlimTim]

Rule out fletching contact first then take a look at your arrow spine. What is your draw length? My guess is your a bit over spined unless you’ve got a 31”+ draw. 50gr brass insert would probably put you in the sweet spot with that 125 head. Have you bare shaft tested yet?

Draw length is 29.5 inches.

 

[SlimTim]

How much insert weight are running?

I’m not too sure. I think they’re 50gn insert/outsert.

 

[SlimTim]

How are you deducing the nock left tendency at distance? I assume you're looking at impact angle in the target, not actually shooting through paper at 20+ yds. Impact angle can be misleading due to inconsistencies in the target medium. Shooting a bareshaft alongside a fletched shaft or a fixed blade broadhead alongside a field point at distance will tell the true story. If your arrows truly are flying nock left, the bareshaft will land to the right of the fletched shaft and the broadhead will land to the right of the field point.

Paper tuning is good for getting started but isn't a complete replacement for bareshaft or broadhead tuning. I always shoot through paper at two distances (6 and 20-ish ft) to confirm my tear before making any adjustments.

Conventional wisdom (nock left tear = arrow is too weak, nock right tear = arrow is too stiff for a right-handed shooter) would say your arrow might be weak (assuming you are indeed a righty and truly are getting nock left flight). But 250 spine would actually be on the stiff side (per spine charts) unless your arrows are 30+" long with really heavy inserts. I think the conventional spine vs. tear advice is a holdover from the days of traditional bows shot with fingers and isn't applicable to a compound bow shot with a mechanical release. I highly doubt that arrow spine is causing any problems for you.

Thanks so much. I slo-mo videoed my arrows and you can see the nock left after about 20 yards. The arrows are also nock left in the target. I’ll shoot some bare shards and broadheads.

 

[Rick653]

Now matter who's advice you take and use, you'll be on the right path to getting back in tune. At least you decided to check your tune now with some decent time before the season starts

 

[Mighty Mouse]

when I'm broadhead tuning do I just do that the same as normal paper tuning? Won’t the broadhead tear the paper and make it hard to see what the tear looks like? Maybe I’ll just give it a go.

Broadhead tuning means shooting a broadhead-tipped arrow and a field point-tipped arrow at the same spot and comparing relative points of impact (no paper involved). Bareshaft tuning is similar: shoot an arrow with fletching and an arrow without fletching (both tipped with field points) at the same spot and compare relative POI. The charts below from Gold Tip illustrate the different tuning methods and explain what adjustments to make.

How can I determine vane contact? I’ve heard lipstick on the vanes?

Coat the edges of the vanes with a distinctly colored substance (lip stick, silver Sharpie, gel paint pen, spray foot powder) then check for traces of the tattletale substance on your cables, rest fork/arm, rest containment cage, and/or sight housing after shooting.

 

[SlimTim]

I put lipstick on my vanes and there is none on my rest. I’m pretty confident it’s not vane contact.
Bare shaft paper tune looks good to about 5-10 yards, then it’s pretty bad.
broad head, bare shaft and field point group well at 20 yards, then the broad head and bare shaft group high at 30 yards.
Any more ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Wrench]

Broadheads can plane in the wind. They can "steer" the arrow. I would work on walk back tuning bares, broadhead and field points from 5-however far tou can shoot and see what happens....is it linear?

 

[Samdemarais]

I put lipstick on my vanes and there is none on my rest. I’m pretty confident it’s not vane contact.
Bare shaft paper tune looks good to about 5-10 yards, then it’s pretty bad.
broad head, bare shaft and field point group well at 20 yards, then the broad head and bare shaft group high at 30 yards.
Any more ideas would be greatly appreciated.

So you had a left tail now a low tail? If broadheads are high at 30 you need to bump rest down 1/32” at a time.

 

[Copeingwithfailure]

I apologize OP if this appears to be a highjack but I am having a similar issue.

I AM making vane contact on the rest and for the life of me I cannot find a video showing this adjustment to drop away for correction. I am a novice, but prefer to do my own work compared to local bow shops (they don't have time to set me up properly and have had me chasing ghosts for years).