Arrow Weight

[MaxHenderson]

I see a lot of people talking about minimum arrow weight needing to be 450, 500, or anything else. Hunting in much more open areas, with small deer (Coues and Coastal blacktails) and turkeys, is such a heavy arrow necessary? Or could you be better off with a lighter, faster arrow?


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[Kgentry]

My arrows are 405gr and my bow is shooting them at 296fps I’ve killed Blacktail with this set up and my buddies have setups that are very similar and shoot deer and elk. Shot placement IMO is more important then arrow weight. Now I’m not saying to build the lightest arrow possible and I’m also saying I don’t feel a guy needs the heaviest arrow possible. Put together an arrow and shoot them a lot and build confidence and accuracy with that setup.

 

[roosiebull]

I killed my share of stuff with light fast arrows over the years, including 10ish roosies, same amount of blacktail, and a couple bear with arrows in the 380-400gr range. the past few years, 5 or 6, I have bumped my arrow weight up, not because I was having problems, but because I wanted to try something different and that made sense.

the last several years I have shot between 480-642gr out of my compounds, which has killed stuff just as dead, with coincidentally or not less reaction to the shot (that theory isn't one I would change my arrow setup for, but there has been a pattern)

I will say I will never again shoot less than 500gr, not because it's needed to kill stuff, but it quiets the bow a lot, and makes fixed head flight way more forgiving... it makes a lot of sense, especially when you shoot the same target with the same pin with a light arrow and heavy arrow and there is way less difference in point of impact than most would guess.

example, I shot a 440gr arrow and a 585gr arrow out of my 70lb triax at the time shooting 70lbs and 28" mods (just over 28.5" draw length) and there was basically no difference to 30yds, and 4" @ 50yds... not a big deal in practical terms.

if you like light and fast, by all means, I shot a lot of critters with that type of setup, and it always worked, but it won't hurt to try a heavier arrow that is spined correctly for your rig so you have a good idea what you prefer.

hunting on the coast, there is gonna be shooting through some stuff, even if you try not too, there's often something between you and the critter, a heavier arrow is way less sensitive to deflections (within reason of course) and just fits what I do much better.... maybe a lighter arrow fits your needs better, you would know more than me.

i'm a proponent of building an arrow setup that perfectly tailors to your needs, whichever that may mean. I don't see any benefit of going below 425gr for anything, but if you do, I won't say you're wrong... especially if you are killing critters with it.

I like higher foc, but not full Ashby on it, if I build an arrow that flies good for me and it's 14% foc i'm not going to feel insecure about it, haha.... I know well enough that I like avoiding the extremes, whether it's fast and light or heavy EFOC.... somewhere in the middle is where I like to be after doing some really heavy high foc builds... unnecessary to me, bow is quiet and forgiving without getting crazy.

I do tend to build heavier higher foc arrows for my recurve, and it's more about getting the arrow speed that my mind likes... there is a range of trajectories that I shoot better... too light and i'm constantly shooting high, too heavy and i'm shooting low and the arrow is falling out the bottom too fast... different deal altogether.

modern compounds have energy to spare, so no reason to split hairs on arrow builds, lots of them work. I say stay in the middle of the extremes, and favor whatever end of the spectrum that fits your needs the best. don't listen to those who say YOU need to shoot 300fps hunting arrows, or the ones that say YOU need 650gr hunting arrows.... you don't, and the extremes are very specific, not good for an all around hunting arrow imo.

one of the most versatile arrows is a 5mm axis in your spine range with a 50gr brass HIT and a 125gr head.... still may not be best suited for what you do, but painting with a broad brush, it's a good do all arrow.

 

[NYyotekiller]

Roosiebull is right on the money.

Couldn’t say it any better.

 

[MaxHenderson]

I killed my share of stuff with light fast arrows over the years, including 10ish roosies, same amount of blacktail, and a couple bear with arrows in the 380-400gr range. the past few years, 5 or 6, I have bumped my arrow weight up, not because I was having problems, but because I wanted to try something different and that made sense.

the last several years I have shot between 480-642gr out of my compounds, which has killed stuff just as dead, with coincidentally or not less reaction to the shot (that theory isn't one I would change my arrow setup for, but there has been a pattern)

I will say I will never again shoot less than 500gr, not because it's needed to kill stuff, but it quiets the bow a lot, and makes fixed head flight way more forgiving... it makes a lot of sense, especially when you shoot the same target with the same pin with a light arrow and heavy arrow and there is way less difference in point of impact than most would guess.

example, I shot a 440gr arrow and a 585gr arrow out of my 70lb triax at the time shooting 70lbs and 28" mods (just over 28.5" draw length) and there was basically no difference to 30yds, and 4" @ 50yds... not a big deal in practical terms.

if you like light and fast, by all means, I shot a lot of critters with that type of setup, and it always worked, but it won't hurt to try a heavier arrow that is spined correctly for your rig so you have a good idea what you prefer.

hunting on the coast, there is gonna be shooting through some stuff, even if you try not too, there's often something between you and the critter, a heavier arrow is way less sensitive to deflections (within reason of course) and just fits what I do much better.... maybe a lighter arrow fits your needs better, you would know more than me.

i'm a proponent of building an arrow setup that perfectly tailors to your needs, whichever that may mean. I don't see any benefit of going below 425gr for anything, but if you do, I won't say you're wrong... especially if you are killing critters with it.

I like higher foc, but not full Ashby on it, if I build an arrow that flies good for me and it's 14% foc i'm not going to feel insecure about it, haha.... I know well enough that I like avoiding the extremes, whether it's fast and light or heavy EFOC.... somewhere in the middle is where I like to be after doing some really heavy high foc builds... unnecessary to me, bow is quiet and forgiving without getting crazy.

I do tend to build heavier higher foc arrows for my recurve, and it's more about getting the arrow speed that my mind likes... there is a range of trajectories that I shoot better... too light and i'm constantly shooting high, too heavy and i'm shooting low and the arrow is falling out the bottom too fast... different deal altogether.

modern compounds have energy to spare, so no reason to split hairs on arrow builds, lots of them work. I say stay in the middle of the extremes, and favor whatever end of the spectrum that fits your needs the best. don't listen to those who say YOU need to shoot 300fps hunting arrows, or the ones that say YOU need 650gr hunting arrows.... you don't, and the extremes are very specific, not good for an all around hunting arrow imo.

one of the most versatile arrows is a 5mm axis in your spine range with a 50gr brass HIT and a 125gr head.... still may not be best suited for what you do, but painting with a broad brush, it's a good do all arrow.

Appreciate this insight a ton. Axis have been on my radar, as I have been shooting Gold Tip Kinetics and like that small diameter. With those I’m at about 450 ish grains. Ends up being pretty slow, 240 ish FPS.


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[Rob5589]

Appreciate this insight a ton. Axis have been on my radar, as I have been shooting Gold Tip Kinetics and like that small diameter. With those I’m at about 450 ish grains. Ends up being pretty slow, 240 ish FPS.


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240 may be "slow" by todays standards but, plenty of critters have died at that speed, and slower.

 

[Greenmachine_1]

I killed my share of stuff with light fast arrows over the years, including 10ish roosies, same amount of blacktail, and a couple bear with arrows in the 380-400gr range. the past few years, 5 or 6, I have bumped my arrow weight up, not because I was having problems, but because I wanted to try something different and that made sense.

the last several years I have shot between 480-642gr out of my compounds, which has killed stuff just as dead, with coincidentally or not less reaction to the shot (that theory isn't one I would change my arrow setup for, but there has been a pattern)

I will say I will never again shoot less than 500gr, not because it's needed to kill stuff, but it quiets the bow a lot, and makes fixed head flight way more forgiving... it makes a lot of sense, especially when you shoot the same target with the same pin with a light arrow and heavy arrow and there is way less difference in point of impact than most would guess.

example, I shot a 440gr arrow and a 585gr arrow out of my 70lb triax at the time shooting 70lbs and 28" mods (just over 28.5" draw length) and there was basically no difference to 30yds, and 4" @ 50yds... not a big deal in practical terms.

if you like light and fast, by all means, I shot a lot of critters with that type of setup, and it always worked, but it won't hurt to try a heavier arrow that is spined correctly for your rig so you have a good idea what you prefer.

hunting on the coast, there is gonna be shooting through some stuff, even if you try not too, there's often something between you and the critter, a heavier arrow is way less sensitive to deflections (within reason of course) and just fits what I do much better.... maybe a lighter arrow fits your needs better, you would know more than me.

i'm a proponent of building an arrow setup that perfectly tailors to your needs, whichever that may mean. I don't see any benefit of going below 425gr for anything, but if you do, I won't say you're wrong... especially if you are killing critters with it.

I like higher foc, but not full Ashby on it, if I build an arrow that flies good for me and it's 14% foc i'm not going to feel insecure about it, haha.... I know well enough that I like avoiding the extremes, whether it's fast and light or heavy EFOC.... somewhere in the middle is where I like to be after doing some really heavy high foc builds... unnecessary to me, bow is quiet and forgiving without getting crazy.

I do tend to build heavier higher foc arrows for my recurve, and it's more about getting the arrow speed that my mind likes... there is a range of trajectories that I shoot better... too light and i'm constantly shooting high, too heavy and i'm shooting low and the arrow is falling out the bottom too fast... different deal altogether.

modern compounds have energy to spare, so no reason to split hairs on arrow builds, lots of them work. I say stay in the middle of the extremes, and favor whatever end of the spectrum that fits your needs the best. don't listen to those who say YOU need to shoot 300fps hunting arrows, or the ones that say YOU need 650gr hunting arrows.... you don't, and the extremes are very specific, not good for an all around hunting arrow imo.

one of the most versatile arrows is a 5mm axis in your spine range with a 50gr brass HIT and a 125gr head.... still may not be best suited for what you do, but painting with a broad brush, it's a good do all arrow.

You need to shoot a 650 grain arrow 300 fps...

I completely agree with roosiebull. Shooting a quiet bow with good momentum, and tight enough pin gaps so you can shoot a reasonable distance with a compound is a lethal combination.

In my opinion, your confidence in your gear and practice are far more important than the details.

Edit: last year I shot a 570 grain Axis with 75 grain insert and 100 grain broadhead at 255 fps. I like everything about it, especially at close ranges, but want more range so I'm working on a different setup to increase speed to tighten the pin gaps. I cleanly missed a whitetail this year and he only ran 20 yards after the shot because I'm pretty sure all he heard was the arrow hitting the ground next to him.

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[MaxHenderson]

You need to shoot a 650 grain arrow 300 fps...

I completely agree with roosiebull. Shooting a quiet bow with good momentum, and tight enough pin gaps so you can shoot a reasonable distance with a compound is a lethal combination.

In my opinion, your confidence in your gear and practice are far more important than the details.

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I like what I’m hearing. Sounds much better than the need to shoot 120 yards and 300 FPS with a 650 grain as you said.


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[JasonWi]

roosiebull is spot on with his explanation.

I've killed animals with a 375 grain arrow up to 551 arrow. The terrain, animal size and distances certainly play a decision in my arrow builds. But if deer is your primary target I would stay 440 + grains and not be concerned.

I have stayed with 500 + grains for the last few seasons, mainly because the past 25 years my average shot distance is under 30 yards and a super high speed arrow simply isn't needed IMO, as the poi difference isn't that dramatic at closer yardages between the heavier and lighter arrows.

My bows noise has decreased and BH tuning has become easier with sub 280 fps.

 

[Moosehunter]

Killed a elk this year at 37 yards. Quartering to and was a total pass thru. 412 grains did the trick. Gonna try heavier arrows this year for no particular reason other than trying to quiet the bow maybe. Mostly just experimenting tho as no real complaint with the light arrow.

 

[stonewall]

I killed my share of stuff with light fast arrows over the years, including 10ish roosies, same amount of blacktail, and a couple bear with arrows in the 380-400gr range. the past few years, 5 or 6, I have bumped my arrow weight up, not because I was having problems, but because I wanted to try something different and that made sense.

the last several years I have shot between 480-642gr out of my compounds, which has killed stuff just as dead, with coincidentally or not less reaction to the shot (that theory isn't one I would change my arrow setup for, but there has been a pattern)

I will say I will never again shoot less than 500gr, not because it's needed to kill stuff, but it quiets the bow a lot, and makes fixed head flight way more forgiving... it makes a lot of sense, especially when you shoot the same target with the same pin with a light arrow and heavy arrow and there is way less difference in point of impact than most would guess.

example, I shot a 440gr arrow and a 585gr arrow out of my 70lb triax at the time shooting 70lbs and 28" mods (just over 28.5" draw length) and there was basically no difference to 30yds, and 4" @ 50yds... not a big deal in practical terms.

if you like light and fast, by all means, I shot a lot of critters with that type of setup, and it always worked, but it won't hurt to try a heavier arrow that is spined correctly for your rig so you have a good idea what you prefer.

hunting on the coast, there is gonna be shooting through some stuff, even if you try not too, there's often something between you and the critter, a heavier arrow is way less sensitive to deflections (within reason of course) and just fits what I do much better.... maybe a lighter arrow fits your needs better, you would know more than me.

i'm a proponent of building an arrow setup that perfectly tailors to your needs, whichever that may mean. I don't see any benefit of going below 425gr for anything, but if you do, I won't say you're wrong... especially if you are killing critters with it.

I like higher foc, but not full Ashby on it, if I build an arrow that flies good for me and it's 14% foc i'm not going to feel insecure about it, haha.... I know well enough that I like avoiding the extremes, whether it's fast and light or heavy EFOC.... somewhere in the middle is where I like to be after doing some really heavy high foc builds... unnecessary to me, bow is quiet and forgiving without getting crazy.

I do tend to build heavier higher foc arrows for my recurve, and it's more about getting the arrow speed that my mind likes... there is a range of trajectories that I shoot better... too light and i'm constantly shooting high, too heavy and i'm shooting low and the arrow is falling out the bottom too fast... different deal altogether.

modern compounds have energy to spare, so no reason to split hairs on arrow builds, lots of them work. I say stay in the middle of the extremes, and favor whatever end of the spectrum that fits your needs the best. don't listen to those who say YOU need to shoot 300fps hunting arrows, or the ones that say YOU need 650gr hunting arrows.... you don't, and the extremes are very specific, not good for an all around hunting arrow imo.

one of the most versatile arrows is a 5mm axis in your spine range with a 50gr brass HIT and a 125gr head.... still may not be best suited for what you do, but painting with a broad brush, it's a good do all arrow.

This

I shoot 530 grains. Don’t remember speed. Some guy at a 3D shoot was impressed at how quite it was - said he was never able to get his chill r that quite. FWIW

 

[180splitg3]

I am set up with the 5mm axis, 50 gr brass and 100 grain head for an arrow weight right at about 460. If I was going to start fresh I'd still use the axis but would skip the brass in favor of a heavier broadhead. I just think it would make more sense to put the extra weight into the head which should make the head more rugged. This would also increase FOC slightly. When I say heavier heads I'm thinking 150-200 grain fixed heads. If you go this route it will limit your broadhead selection so that is something to keep in mind...

 

[KyleR1985]

I am set up with the 5mm axis, 50 gr brass and 100 grain head for an arrow weight right at about 460. If I was going to start fresh I'd still use the axis but would skip the brass in favor of a heavier broadhead. I just think it would make more sense to put the extra weight into the head which should make the head more rugged. This would also increase FOC slightly. When I say heavier heads I'm thinking 150-200 grain fixed heads. If you go this route it will limit your broadhead selection so that is something to keep in mind...

just putting a heavy broadhead on a arrow is asking for trouble. When you increase FOC, you increase the forces acting on the front of the arrow. Any joints will be at higher risk of being compromised. You’re far better off getting the weight in the form of longer inserts, footers, half outs, etc.

Yes, putting 200 grains up front is better in theory. But if the side load generated on impact breaks the shaft behind the standard aluminum insert, all the advantage is lost.

I’m not saying I don’t think it’s a good idea to increase arrow weight and FOC - I’m a proponent of both for almost all medium and big game hunting situations. But there are downsides to doing it the ‘cheap and easy’ way.

 

[180splitg3]

just putting a heavy broadhead on a arrow is asking for trouble. When you increase FOC, you increase the forces acting on the front of the arrow. Any joints will be at higher risk of being compromised. You’re far better off getting the weight in the form of longer inserts, footers, half outs, etc.

Yes, putting 200 grains up front is better in theory. But if the side load generated on impact breaks the shaft behind the standard aluminum insert, all the advantage is lost.

I’m not saying I don’t think it’s a good idea to increase arrow weight and FOC - I’m a proponent of both for almost all medium and big game hunting situations. But there are downsides to doing it the ‘cheap and easy’ way.

This is a good point and something to keep in mind. I have not heard of anyone who has broken an arrow due to the weight of a broadhead but, maybe it has happened...

 

[MattB]

just putting a heavy broadhead on a arrow is asking for trouble. When you increase FOC, you increase the forces acting on the front of the arrow. Any joints will be at higher risk of being compromised. You’re far better off getting the weight in the form of longer inserts, footers, half outs, etc.

Yes, putting 200 grains up front is better in theory. But if the side load generated on impact breaks the shaft behind the standard aluminum insert, all the advantage is lost.

I’m not saying I don’t think it’s a good idea to increase arrow weight and FOC - I’m a proponent of both for almost all medium and big game hunting situations. But there are downsides to doing it the ‘cheap and easy’ way.

I am not sure I agree with that point. Some broadheads that come in varying weights are going to be more durable because there is more meat to the ferrule, which would reduce rather than increase the potential for failure.

 

[Beendare]

I've seen plenty of critters killed with light arrows...and some 'head scratcher' failures too.

Worth noting, in about 40 years of bowhunting; Every experienced bowhunter I know has evolved to a heavier arrow- typically in that 450-500gr range.

Many advantages;
easier to tune
Still Good trajectory
Great penetration
Durable arrow
Quiets the bow

I've said it for a couple decades now on AT, setup your bow for a 450-500gr arrow sight and all...then shoot both the new 500-ish arrow and your old light arrow at 40 yds.

The tiny difference in trajectory loss with the heavier arrow will be an eye opener- it ain't much.

[most guys with an 80-ish gr increase report back that its an inch or less at 40 yds- which in the field is a non issue] Now if its a dedicated 3D setup maxed for scoring...yeah an inch matters. I'm talking hunting.

You see its the pin change that matters as it has you overlaying the arrows in a realistic way. Looking at these arcs on the software calculators and small graphs skews the result making it appear you are losing a lot of trajectory. They don't factor in the way you actually shoot at game using a pin as it overlays the trajectory differently.

It doesn't work in reverse, shooting the heavy arrow with the light arrow pin setting as it starts the heavy arrow on a lower launch angle- again skewing the result. Its critical to overlay the arrow trajectories in a real world scenario.

Try it...you will see what I mean.

_________

 

[KyleR1985]

I am not sure I agree with that point. Some broadheads that come in varying weights are going to be more durable because there is more meat to the ferrule, which would reduce rather than increase the potential for failure.

I’m not suggesting the broadhead won’t be stronger. You are correct on that. I’m saying that the arrow system will be at higher risk of failure at joints due to increased forces acting on front of arrow. It’s not up for debate, it’s simple physics.

 

[MattB]

I’m not suggesting the broadhead won’t be stronger. You are correct on that. I’m saying that the arrow system will be at higher risk of failure at joints due to increased forces acting on front of arrow. It’s not up for debate, it’s simple physics.

In my 20+ year bowhunting career, the vast majority of damage I have experienced and seen other experience has been to the broadhead and not the broadhead/insert junction. The physics may be theoretically correct, but my experience doesn't bear out that it is something to consider when selecting point weight. Too many other +'s ro consider.

 

[jolmaco]

Axis 480 grain with qad exodus has been a great setup for me with pass through's on everything I have shot with them.

 

[KyleR1985]

In my 20+ year bowhunting career, the vast majority of damage I have experienced and seen other experience has been to the broadhead and not the broadhead/insert junction. The physics may be theoretically correct, but my experience doesn't bear out that it is something to consider when selecting point weight. Too many other +'s ro consider.

If you put a 200 grain broadhead in a stock standard aluminum insert and hit two rib bones on a broadside shot, it’s probably fine. Hit that same rib on a quartering shot, or hit leg bone, and you may have a dramatically different result. One of the many benefits of going to a heavier setup is the ability to still get into the goodies in the event of contact with heavy bone or less than ideal angles.

We are both promoting the same end result, so on much we agree. But I’ve seen enough arrow systems fail at the insert/arrow joint from side loading to disagree on going heavy on broadhead with standard insert. I’ll take a well built 125-150gr head, with a stainless half out or better stainless insert/footer making up the rest of the weight.

it’s probably the same amount of money either way, but one way takes more effort. I see the allure of the easy way out. And for most situations it will work fine. But for the odd situations where you need arrow system integrity, it makes sense to have it in all cases.

for sure we are arguing the finer points here - if the options are crappy aluminum insert and 100gr head, or same insert and 200gr head, I’ll take the heavy option. But option C of a fully thought out system that will hold up better is my choice.