Arrow Tinkering

[Keener22]

Looking for advice on tinkering my arrow setup while my bow gets new strings. Currently shooting an RX5, 27”/70lb draw. My arrow is an Easton Axis 340, 26” long with 160 up front (125 IW broadhead, 25 grain insert, 10 grain collar). These things shot great, so I’m not super inclined to change them, but I’m getting different recommendations of spine everywhere I look. I have a few new ones left.

I’d like to step up into more front weight, 175 or maybe 200. I have a short draw with less speed, so I don’t want to go too heavy overall.

Plugging that setup into the calculators puts me seemingly in the middle on 340 and 300 spine. IW recommends 300, while Easton and Archer’s Advantage show 340 as being fine. The issue is that if I go to 300 spine, the Axis will be too heavy imo and I’ll need to switch to RIP TKOs.

 

[fatlander]

Why are you wanting more weight up front?

What you’ve got is more than adequate for everything in North America.

I wouldn’t change a thing, personally.


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[Bump79]

Looking for advice on tinkering my arrow setup while my bow gets new strings. Currently shooting an RX5, 27”/70lb draw. My arrow is an Easton Axis 340, 26” long with 160 up front (125 IW broadhead, 25 grain insert, 10 grain collar). These things shot great, so I’m not super inclined to change them, but I’m getting different recommendations of spine everywhere I look. I have a few new ones left.

I’d like to step up into more front weight, 175 or maybe 200. I have a short draw with less speed, so I don’t want to go too heavy overall.

Plugging that setup into the calculators puts me seemingly in the middle on 340 and 300 spine. IW recommends 300, while Easton and Archer’s Advantage show 340 as being fine. The issue is that if I go to 300 spine, the Axis will be too heavy imo and I’ll need to switch to RIP TKOs.

What is the goal of higher front weight?

Just food for thought from a custom builder. What you've got is almost EXACTLY what I'd set you up from scratch with. You should be around 440 grains which is a perfect balance of durability and trajectory for your setup. So if they are shooting great, I wouldn't change a thing. Plus the IW components you've got were expensive and quality. So I'd use them!! I honestly can't imagine a much better setup. You're already in the top 1% of builds.

You're not underspined at a 26" long arrow. It's right on where you need to be, if anything you can likely trim them down a hair more like 1/4" and that will stiffen it up. Most online calculators like archers advantage are using an estimated equation with some assumptions on math. They image they spit out looks great as it indicates where

The FOC % chase is a near pointless game after 15% and you should be above that. As long as your arrow with 160 grains total up front doesn't have a lot a of weight out back I'd run it as is. If it does have a 4 fletch, wrap and lighted nocks. Then I'd just reconsider that end of the arrow.

Straight from IW - you're dialed man!

The Science Behind Arrow FOC

For bow hunters, it's important to understand how FOC can impact your flight and arrow penetration. FOC tells us where the center of your arrow's mass is relative to the center of your arrow. To find the center of mass, you find the balance point of the arrow. To find the center of the arrow...

ironwilloutfitters.com

 

[Bump79]

Why are you wanting more weight up front?

What you’ve got is more than adequate for everything in North America.

I wouldn’t change a thing, personally.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seconded. I would focus my time on the perfect tune and my abilities. That arrow is no point of weakness that's for sure.

 

[Billy Goat]

Speeds forgiveness is often overlooked. The arrow coming off the bow is more forgiving to form breakdowns in the shot. Flatter arrow flight can help in getting an arrow to an animal in smaller windows.


I'll admit, I get bias to preserving speed, but I think I'd be sticking with the weight you currently have up front, and possibly even looking at a lighter shaft.


Or just staying right where you are, the thing about speed is it's not as forgiving to tuning, especially with fixed blades.

 

[Keener22]

What is the goal of higher front weight?

Just food for thought from a custom builder. What you've got is almost EXACTLY what I'd set you up from scratch with. You should be around 440 grains which is a perfect balance of durability and trajectory for your setup. So if they are shooting great, I wouldn't change a thing. Plus the IW components you've got were expensive and quality. So I'd use them!! I honestly can't imagine a much better setup. You're already in the top 1% of builds.

You're not underspined at a 26" long arrow. It's right on where you need to be, if anything you can likely trim them down a hair more like 1/4" and that will stiffen it up. Most online calculators like archers advantage are using an estimated equation with some assumptions on math. They image they spit out looks great as it indicates where

The FOC % chase is a near pointless game after 15% and you should be above that. As long as your arrow with 160 grains total up front doesn't have a lot a of weight out back I'd run it as is. If it does have a 4 fletch, wrap and lighted nocks. Then I'd just reconsider that end of the arrow.

Straight from IW - you're dialed man!

The Science Behind Arrow FOC

For bow hunters, it's important to understand how FOC can impact your flight and arrow penetration. FOC tells us where the center of your arrow's mass is relative to the center of your arrow. To find the center of mass, you find the balance point of the arrow. To find the center of the arrow...

ironwilloutfitters.com

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Thanks for the info! My thought was that more up front weight would achieve more penetration, but it seems like there’s not much to be gained by making all these changes.

 

[Bump79]

Speeds forgiveness is often overlooked. The arrow coming off the bow is more forgiving to form breakdowns in the shot. Flatter arrow flight can help in getting an arrow to an animal in smaller windows.


I'll admit, I get bias to preserving speed, but I think I'd be sticking with the weight you currently have up front, and possibly even looking at a lighter shaft.


Or just staying right where you are, the thing about speed is it's not as forgiving to tuning, especially with fixed blades.

I have the same opinion. I personally believe that this current arrow would in real world scenarios will lead to better penetration that if he added any weight. If anything, I'd drop down 15 grains in the shaft like you mentioned. Then maybe move to an IW 100 or similar.

I'm completely convinced that adding time in flight and range error leads to less penetration and lower lethality. Above and below vitals is bone. The absolute last thing I want to do is add mass for theoretical penetration gains then the heavier arrow makes me hit a bone I could wouldn't have hit in the first place. Probability says that the one that misses bone will penetrate better.

To your point, there is a thing as too fast with fixed blades though. I'd still say where he's at there's no point in changing.

 

[big44a4]

I wouldn’t add more FOC/weight given your specs. I’m a believer in speed forgiveness as mentioned above. Many shots you won’t have time to range again and a faster flatter arrow will be more beneficial.

You do have room to cut your arrows shorter as well, but no need to change spine.

 

[Keener22]

Sounds like I’ll stay right where I’m at, thanks everyone!

 

[anonymous22]

Thanks for the info! My thought was that more up front weight would achieve more penetration, but it seems like there’s not much to be gained by making all these changes.

It can. You’re just on the wrong forum where the people want to keep things as simple as possible for themselves or are giving advice based on their limited experience.

When you look at the success statistics in your state in the area you archery hunt, especially, OTC….the 6% success rate isn’t who you’re always getting the advice from. Or dedicated western bow hunters who do it for the love of the game.

Theres a ton of information on different FOC recommendations for different scenarios. FOCs can have a recommendation from brands like Easton starting at like 10% and go all the way to 30% by other metrics. Penetration is A reason. It’s not the only reason for a higher FOC.

You’re also right about the spine. Sometimes you want to go a spine up usually if you plan to go on the higher end of it. If I was you looking to play with the idea, I’d start fresh from scratch starting with new arrows and components and build it out. You can do a lot of this work with some research, and a pen and paper.

Sometimes you can find arrows in singles online. A lighter .166 with stainless steel insert could be a way to keep the arrow total weight from getting out of control while having weight up front for example. I use titanium ones from podium for my hunting set ups, however, my set up is different.

Build maybe 2 and see if it’s something you’re into. You’d be surprised how awesome or how horrible you can make a bow just playing with arrow setups. This is more feasible if you build your own arrows, which I do, hence the lens which my advice comes from. Bringing arrows to a shop may or may not make it as cost or time effective. Good luck.

 

[ATL]

Extreme FOC is not wanted, it creates more actual problems than it solves in theory.

Adequate FOC is what is needed. The front half of the arrow needs to carry more weight than the rear half of the arrow. 10%-15% is about right.

I have a similar setup to you, 27” draw/67# draw, shooting 25 5/8” 350 spine arrows. I aim for 150 - 160 grains total up front, and lessen weight to the rear by smartly choosing light fletch configurations (currently AAE Hybrid HP x 3).

To enhance penetration I choose good broadhead designs with sharp blades, and ensure perfectly tuned arrow flight. Those elements are known enhancers of penetration no matter the FOC.

I look for a well balanced system, not focused on one item (FOC) set at an extreme, harming other critical elements. I believe my current FOC is approximately 14%. Arrow flight, trajectory, and penetration is maximized for my overall setup.

 

[fatlander]

I shoot a 520 grain arrow at 290 fps with 200 grains upfront out of one bow and a 485 grain arrow with 175 grains up front at 285 out of another. Both tipped with grim reaper 1.25-1.5” mechs. In the last 40 animals I’ve killed with a bow, I don’t remember not getting a pass through.

I’m not saying this is you OP, but most people would be better served to spend more time shooting what they’ve got and getting reps at punching tags than nerding out on minutia of differences in FOC, fletchings, inserts, etc.

Tune your bow, shoot it a lot, shoot somewhere between 400-500 grain total arrow weight that gets you north of 280 FPS, and you’ll have no problems. Hit what you should, not what you shouldn’t. No one is getting through elk elbows, even with telephone pole arrows, and most people still won’t get through deer elbows, either.


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[Keener22]

I shoot a 520 grain arrow at 290 fps with 200 grains upfront out of one bow and a 485 grain arrow with 175 grains up front at 285 out of another. Both tipped with grim reaper 1.25-1.5” mechs. In the last 40 animals I’ve killed with a bow, I don’t remember not getting a pass through.

I’m not saying this is you OP, but most people would be better served to spend more time shooting what they’ve got and getting reps at punching tags than nerding out on minutia of differences in FOC, fletchings, inserts, etc.

Tune your bow, shoot it a lot, shoot somewhere between 400-500 grain total arrow weight that gets you north of 280 FPS, and you’ll have no problems. Hit what you should, not what you shouldn’t. No one is getting through elk elbows, even with telephone pole arrows, and most people still won’t get through deer elbows, either.


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I completely agree. That might seem odd considering I’m the one who asked about said minutia of differences, but it’s definitely more often that folks should focus on their own skills than the specs of their weapon choice, within reason.

I didn’t take a shot on an elk on my first tag because my preparation didn’t make me comfortable. Since then, I’ve been incredibly meticulous in range preparation. I haven’t fired an arrow on the range that didn’t have its impact logged in a notebook and notes taken if needed. As I ramp back up and prep for this fall, I wanted to leave no boxes unchecked. I need some more arrows so I started looking at options. As others have mentioned I could tinker around, but if the new strings come in and my current setup tunes up well again, I’m just going to get more of the same and be ready for September.

 

[Beendare]

Extreme FOC is not wanted, it creates more actual problems than it solves in theory.

Adequate FOC is what is needed. The front half of the arrow needs to carry more weight than the rear half of the arrow. 10%-15% is about right.


I look for a well balanced system, not focused on one item (FOC) set at an extreme, harming other critical elements. I believe my current FOC is approximately 14%. Arrow flight, trajectory, and penetration is maximized for my overall setup.

Well said. OP needs to watch the Excellent Iron Will video. Additional arrow weight is what increases penetration but at the cost of worse trajectory, ie- Misses and poor shot locations. Additional FOC is more arrow weight...but there are diminishing returns. FOC is a secondary of perfect arrow flight and not a number to shoot for.

There is one guy claiming EFOC is good. The rest of Archery; Pros in every aspect of archery, Experienced Bowhunters all tune for perfect arrow flight and not a single one shoots very high FOC- Zero.

Now, who are you going to listen to? grin

Penetration; When I can blow 2 arrows through an 800# moose with a 46# recurve and a 2 blade....any 60# plus compound has more than enough energy for good penetration. Thats not a concern. If you are getting poor penetration is usually, 1) poor arrow flight or Tuning....or 2) a very inefficient BH design that plows.