Arrow Spine Advice

[sworrior]

Good morning, a long time reader first time poster. Moved over to this from Archerytalk, much more informative, better technical advice, and wanted to get away from all the Rage vs fixed blade posts!

I have a Mathews Vertix, 68 pounds, 29.5 draw. I have been using this current set up with relative success.. (success being excellent broadhead flight out to 70 yards consistent with field tips and no discernible wobble in flight)
-Black Eagle Rampage 300 spine 28.5 shaft, 56 grain outsert
-100 grain slick trick mags or QAD exodus
-3 helical Blazers
-1 Nockturnal

I want to get in the 500 grain range and shift to a specic head: the 125 grain 1.25" VPA 3 blade or 125 grain Iron Will Wide.

Here is my set up I have thought up:
-RIP TKO 250 spine, 28.5 shaft
-Iron will sleeves of 25 grains
-50 grain Brass HIT insert
-3 helical blazers
1 Nockturnal

With this additional weight upfront (an additional 50 grains) is the 250 spine a good idea, or am I better off with the 300? I don't want to get too far before I invest in a $300 per dozen arrows. I understand it is subjective and nothing can replace hands on trial and error, but would like to start off as close as possible.

Thanks in advance!

 

[sneaky]

You can always buy singles and test them out before you dump a lot of money on a full dozen. Hit up Lancaster, or your local dealer and do a sample kit and see what works and what doesn't. Then order your full dozen and build them.

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[sworrior]

You can always buy singles and test them out before you dump a lot of money on a full dozen. Hit up Lancaster, or your local dealer and do a sample kit and see what works and what doesn't. Then order your full dozen and build them.

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Thanks Sneaky. I have been unable to locate these shafts anywhere online except in packages of 6 already fletched (don't really mind I will just cut the fletches off and trim at both ends of the arrow as I always do).

Lancaster was my first attempt but these shafts are a "showroom only" purchase.

 

[Billy Goat]

I think you will be on the line, might get 300 to work might not. I would go with the .250. Could go a little long on your shaft length, like 29.5. That will weaken the .250 spine a little. If it ends up too weak you can cut length from the nock end and refletch.

 

[sworrior]

I think you will be on the line, might get 300 to work might not. I would go with the .250. Could go a little long on your shaft length, like 29.5. That will weaken the .250 spine a little. If it ends up too weak you can cut length from the nock end and refletch.

Billy Goat, great idea. So obvious and simple that in my process of overthinking the issue I didn't even consider this. Thank you.

 

[406unltd]

You would be close to 490g If you just added 125 point on the end and a four fletch in a aae max stealth and keeping everything you still have. You’d basically be adding 16g on the back and 25 up front and should keep you in similar spine you currently have. You wouldn’t know till you shot it for sure but your gonna get that grain field points anyhow so all you’d be out is 10-20$ in fletching that are awesome and you might end up using them regardless. Win win and cheaper taboot if it works.

 

[brettdunn7]

This is likely my next setup except I would look at the stainless Ethics Archery inserts. That way you have no need for sleeves and HIT inserts and all of that. Ethics makes some of the best inserts and adjustable to weight you want.


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[bjfoxhoven]

@sworrior different brand shafts may react dynamically a little different, finding a way to sample one is a great idea... something I will probably do down the road. What are your reasonings for the VPA vs iron will? I’m considering VPA for next year that is why I ask. I’ve always strayed away from 3 blades though due to better penetration through bone with 4 blades.

 

[sworrior]

@406unlt I had considered that but wanted to up the FOC. I know there is a lot of disagreement on the matter but I like 15% range, even if it is just in my head. Thanks for the input and I will fletch one up and shoot it the next couple days to see!

 

[sworrior]

@bjfoxhoven I just really like the VPA. I have figured out how to get them screaming sharp, but I want the 125 due to the bigger cutting diameter. They have done relatively well for me in the 100 grain version. Leaning towards the VPA over Iron Will due to being 1 piece and half the price. I am not too worried about bone because I have blasted through a 225 pound buck both shoulders with a grim reaper WTS and then on a bad shot got 3 inches of penetration into a doe shoulder with a slick trick standard. I think there is no guarantee regardless of weight, type of head, speed etc and sometimes you get lucky sometimes you don't.

 

[sworrior]

@brettdunn7 I will look at ethics. I cant get over the rotating insert though. How is durability?

 

[bjfoxhoven]

I bet that VPA being a lot better material made a big difference going through those animals. Edge retention and sharpness I’m sure helped a lot. I know slick tricks get a lot of edge chatter when they go through anything like bone. It’s what I’ve been shooting for the past five years or so and love them. Love how compact they are and fly very well and never found one to spin bad. I’m switching to something different this year since i will be hunting with my recurve 90% of the time.

 

[brettdunn7]

@brettdunn7 I will look at ethics. I cant get over the rotating insert though. How is durability?

They have static inserts. Get the SS and you will be set. I know tons of people who run them and they are highly recommended on the archery forums I ran the aluminum on my last dozen and had no issues


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[sworrior]

@bjfoxhoven yes I agree on the edge chatter. Otherwise, the steel is nice and when I clean them up on the KME they are beyond scapel sharp. I would recommend the STs to anyone though. That being said, getting such a fine edge is probably pointless after it touches the first few hairs or worse a rib on the way in. I have never had one go through a deer and come out sharp. Mixed results on blood but in general seem less that what I get with wac'ems or QAD's. Why, I don't know.

Ill tell you what though once you can start popping hairs with a VPA they seem to hold really well probably due to that three blade angle. Really excellent heads, and when I came across the 125 grain 1.25" version I just felt like I had to have them. If I can get a good setup with the FOC and weight behind to back them up I will probably never change.

 

[sneaky]

@sworrior there's a guy on archery talk selling a dozen TKO 250s new and uncut for $150

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[sneaky]

@brettdunn7 I will look at ethics. I cant get over the rotating insert though. How is durability?

They make non rotating inserts as well

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[nphunter]

@sworrior there's a guy on archery talk selling a dozen TKO 250s new and uncut for $150

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I just sold them this morning. Lol, should have came over here first. Now I just need to find some 300’s!!

 

[nphunter]

I’m currently shooting the following;

RIP TKO Elite .250
27.75 CTC
75gr HIT Brass
25gr IW Collar
Easton X Nock 9gr
6 AAE PM2.0 vanes (3gr ea)
8gr wrap on rear
IW S100 & Trypan 100

They come out to right at 490gr with a 100gr point.

I’m shooting 77lbs and these are still plenty stiff. Personally I would go with a .300 if it were me. I’ve always had better luck staying on the weak end of the spectrum, i feel I have way better groups down range. According to Victory’s spine calculator you will need a .304 spine arrow so there’s no reason you need a .250 unless you plan on shooting a 200gr + head someday.

 

[sworrior]

@nphunter that is good news, thanks. I have a dozen BE X impact shafts in 300 that might work out well then. Ill build up two of them with a 50 grain HIT in behind my firenock outsert (33 grain). That should still get me into the 470 grain range with the 125 head and still with a decent FOC because it is a pretty light shaft. Plus, with the extra weight back aft in the nockturnal perhaps it'll work out just fine.

If its too weak I can always add a heavier fletch or back the bow out a turn or so. I wouldn't be heartbroken if I end up drawing 64/65 pounds. Thanks for the input and suggestions!

 

[Zac]

Don't compare a Victory spine to another shaft. There is a reason Brent is running Victory for his massive FOC set ups. They can handle significantly more weight up front that other shafts. The 250 VAP is supporting the same weight that a 200 spine X Impact can.