Arrow Recommendations

[I hunt_dm3]

Components suck, especially the outserts.

The penetration gains are mostly imaginary. A broadhead cuts a way bigger hole than any shaft that's used for hunting anymore, so the penetration is really dependent on the head, not the shaft that is behind it.


But there's lots of marketing out there to make consumers think otherwise.

What’s wrong with the components for GT .166? I agree with the rest of what you said, marketing and fanboy hype more then anything as far as penetration gains.

 

[5MilesBack]

If durability is high on your list, I'd take another look at the Apollo's. I have some 250's cut to 30" CTC with 50gr brass HIT's, Bohning A nocks, 20gr of fletching, and 100gr heads, and they come in right at 520gr. They are very durable even with just the HIT's. Way more durable than the Kinetic XT 200's I have. Also, I have some Victory RIP TKO Elite 250's with 75gr HIT's and 125's that come in at 500gr. I like them better than the Apollo's so far. The RIP TKO's are .266" vs .276" diameter for the Apollo's. The Apollo's are probably more durable, but the RIP's shoot better for me. Lots of choices out there these days.

 

[Billy Goat]

What’s wrong with the components for GT .166? I agree with the rest of what you said, marketing and fanboy hype more then anything as far as penetration gains.

They bend.

The components get smaller, then you end up with outserts that are longer and create stress risers where they are turned down to fit in the shaft. .166 make great outdoor target arrows, but that's just a single bullet point that's glued in, plus it's not a broadhead with wings on it so it's not that critical that it spins straight. Start stacking components that have tolerances, and everything adds up. The fit between the halfout or the outsert and shaft, then if you add a collar especially, finally screwing the broadhead on the end. Unless it's interference fit, where you need to sand the end of the saft down which is likely to create the same problems, you have a slight tolerance. If that tolerance is .002, but happens twice, it's now .004. That's why you frequently need to assemble everything dry, mark, and then glue it up exactly as marked.

Shafts might be listed as .166, but they aren't all that perfect. I haven't measured actual ID'S on shafts, but I know the inserts, points, bushings are consistent, and they will fit a little different thru a dozen shafts. I got stuff to measure OD and straightness, don't have the capability to measure ID accurately that small.

 

[Rick653]

I know you have a list of setups you're looking into, but have you looked into Black Eagle? They have alot of good choices but I personally like the rampage with it's .204 ID. The stock half out system is pretty tough and they are right there in price with all the other setups on your list

 

[Jake Leibke]

If durability is high on your list, I'd take another look at the Apollo's. I have some 250's cut to 30" CTC with 50gr brass HIT's, Bohning A nocks, 20gr of fletching, and 100gr heads, and they come in right at 520gr. They are very durable even with just the HIT's. Way more durable than the Kinetic XT 200's I have. Also, I have some Victory RIP TKO Elite 250's with 75gr HIT's and 125's that come in at 500gr. I like them better than the Apollo's so far. The RIP TKO's are .266" vs .276" diameter for the Apollo's. The Apollo's are probably more durable, but the RIP's shoot better for me. Lots of choices out there these days.

I like the looks of the Apollo shafts and what I’ve heard about them but if I just order the shaft without inserts they will only discount the price $1 per arrow so it’s still a little pricey IMO. I’ve been looking for some of the RIP TKO in a 250 also but they seem nonexistent.


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[Jake Leibke]

I know you have a list of setups you're looking into, but have you looked into Black Eagle? They have alot of good choices but I personally like the rampage with it's .204 ID. The stock half out system is pretty tough and they are right there in price with all the other setups on your list

I’ve shot rampage in the past and then they were about the least durable arrow I’ve shot. Had them crack and break just shooting into a target. For that reason I was shying away from them.


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[I hunt_dm3]

They bend.

The components get smaller, then you end up with outserts that are longer and create stress risers where they are turned down to fit in the shaft. .166 make great outdoor target arrows, but that's just a single bullet point that's glued in, plus it's not a broadhead with wings on it so it's not that critical that it spins straight. Start stacking components that have tolerances, and everything adds up. The fit between the halfout or the outsert and shaft, then if you add a collar especially, finally screwing the broadhead on the end. Unless it's interference fit, where you need to sand the end of the saft down which is likely to create the same problems, you have a slight tolerance. If that tolerance is .002, but happens twice, it's now .004. That's why you frequently need to assemble everything dry, mark, and then glue it up exactly as marked.

Shafts might be listed as .166, but they aren't all that perfect. I haven't measured actual ID'S on shafts, but I know the inserts, points, bushings are consistent, and they will fit a little different thru a dozen shafts. I got stuff to measure OD and straightness, don't have the capability to measure ID accurately that small.

Thanks for the info. I have had the GT Pierce platinums for a year and they have been great. The ID’s for me have been very consistent and they spin like a dream. I am somewhat new to the arrow building side so I may have issues later but so far all dozen have spun and grouped great. I also appreciate how consistent the GPI was with them.

 

[Jake Leibke]

This doesn't make sense to me on a hunting arrow. I am not trying to be rude but what is not to like? They hold up really well during practice, have excellent wind resistance, they are quite and penetrate on game like no other when loaded up front. Depending on draw weight/length they can be loaded with 185 grain insert/outsert with Ethics archery gear +a 200 grain single bevel if needed. That is 385 grains at the tip, good for both recurve and compound. I am curious as to your reasons why. Ashby's top 12 have taught me a lot.

I have shot various .166 shafts over the past several years. Gold Tip Pierce, Victory VAP, Element Storm. I’ve tried the Ethics system as well. Out of those I’ve tried the VAP were the most durable but the components are the weak point as others have said. I’ve tried various options for that as well, even a D6 insert with an aluminum arrow footer before anything was commercially available like there is now. I agree there are some benefits to them but for me not enough to outweigh the shortcomings which I think is mostly the inserts and the cost of buying arrows for $150+ them having to purchase a decent components for another $50+.


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[Billy Goat]

Thanks for the info. I have had the GT Pierce platinums for a year and they have been great. The ID’s for me have been very consistent and they spin like a dream. I am somewhat new to the arrow building side so I may have issues later but so far all dozen have spun and grouped great. I also appreciate how consistent the GPI was with them.

What halfouts are you using with them?

Here's the GT factory aluminum half-out after hitting a cow elk broadside. She was recovered, hit a single rib on the way in, arrow didn't exit and fell out as she ran.

Not mine, a friend I was with.



Arrow got snapped in half as she ran. However no damage at the insert end, that angle you see is all bend in the shank of the half-out. Long broadheads put a lot of leverage on those points.


I can't remember if those were the .204 or .166 shafts. Likely was the .204, either shaft size has the same issue. I wouldn't be using the GT aluminum components.


I have seen damaged SS half outs as well. I think the whole halfout component system just has too many pitfalls. Go with a hit system in a .204 if you want smaller diameter. Or a proprietary system from a few of the broadhead manufacturers.

 

[I hunt_dm3]

What halfouts are you using with them?

Here's the GT factory aluminum half-out after hitting a cow elk broadside. She was recovered, hit a single rib on the way in, arrow didn't exit and fell out as she ran.

Not mine, a friend I was with.

View attachment 382120

Arrow got snapped in half as she ran. However no damage at the insert end, that angle you see is all bend in the shank of the half-out. Long broadheads put a lot of leverage on those points.


I can't remember if those were the .204 or .166 shafts. Likely was the .204, either shaft size has the same issue. I wouldn't be using the GT aluminum components.


I have seen damaged SS half outs as well. I think the whole halfout component system just has too many pitfalls. Go with a hit system in a .204 if you want smaller diameter. Or a proprietary system from a few of the broadhead manufacturers.

I’m running the stock GT system with 30gr of their fact weight and 100gr QAD exodus head. I had an arrow go through the target and hit a steel post, flattened the field tip but the arrow and insert/collar held up great. No animals yet but hopefully that will change in 7 months…

 

[wayoh22]

I like the looks of the Apollo shafts and what I’ve heard about them but if I just order the shaft without inserts they will only discount the price $1 per arrow so it’s still a little pricey IMO. I’ve been looking for some of the RIP TKO in a 250 also but they seem nonexistent.


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south shore archery has them

 

[JeffRaines]

The penetration gains are mostly imaginary. A broadhead cuts a way bigger hole than any shaft that's used for hunting anymore, so the penetration is really dependent on the head, not the shaft that is behind it.

I was gonna say the same thing. Its a stupid-ass sales point... I guess it seems logical until you remember there's a massive(comparatively) thing on the FRONT of the arrow that's cutting a hole that's at least 5x larger than your shaft through whatever you're shooting at. On foam targets with field points - sure.

Same with micros being better in the wind. Sure, I guess there's probably something quantifiable if you have someone shooting at 80 yards with a shooting machine... for 95% of hunters? No.

Then there's outserts... so lets take a $200+ dozen of arrows, and lets add an additional expense of $50-110 just to get decent components that hopefully don't bend.

Let me clarify - I've got no issues spending money on quality gear that will get the job done... but when I look at spending $180-200 per dozen vs. $300 for an expendable item that's going to do the exact same thing - what am I gaining other than my wallet being lighter? Bragging rights, or getting to be with the "in" crowd I guess.

"Oh look guys - I shoot micros too! #publicland #flatbillforlyfebro #dirtnapdealer #haventkilledshitinyearsbecauseiwastemymoneyonpointlessshitinsteadoftagsbutatleastilookcool"

 

[Billy Goat]

I was gonna say the same thing. Its a stupid-ass sales point... I guess it seems logical until you remember there's a massive(comparatively) thing on the FRONT of the arrow that's cutting a hole that's at least 5x larger than your shaft through whatever you're shooting at. On foam targets with field points - sure.

Same with micros being better in the wind. Sure, I guess there's probably something quantifiable if you have someone shooting at 80 yards with a shooting machine... for 95% of hunters? No.

Then there's outserts... so lets take a $200+ dozen of arrows, and lets add an additional expense of $50-110 just to get decent components that hopefully don't bend.

Let me clarify - I've got no issues spending money on quality gear that will get the job done... but when I look at spending $180-200 per dozen vs. $300 for an expendable item that's going to do the exact same thing - what am I gaining other than my wallet being lighter? Bragging rights, or getting to be with the "in" crowd I guess.

"Oh look guys - I shoot micros too! #publicland #flatbillforlyfebro #dirtnapdealer #haventkilledshitinyearsbecauseiwastemymoneyonpointlessshitinsteadoftagsbutatleastilookcool"

I fit the last hashtag....

 

[WCB]

I have shot various .166 shafts over the past several years. Gold Tip Pierce, Victory VAP, Element Storm. I’ve tried the Ethics system as well. Out of those I’ve tried the VAP were the most durable but the components are the weak point as others have said. I’ve tried various options for that as well, even a D6 insert with an aluminum arrow footer before anything was commercially available like there is now. I agree there are some benefits to them but for me not enough to outweigh the shortcomings which I think is mostly the inserts and the cost of buying arrows for $150+ them having to purchase a decent components for another $50+.


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I agree...Durability issues and not wanting to deal with outsert B.S. I was never satisfied with how they spun or it took me A LOT more work to get them to spin correct. Then shoot them and they end up breaking...I also got WAY more of the outserts pulling out of the arrows than with the GT Hunter inserts. Some guys might want to mess around for hours when building arrows. Not me...cut, square, insert, fletch shoot.

 

[LONE HUNTER]

My one and only experience with half outs was GT kinetics, they all bent in a short amount of time (one hunting season shooting TAC and just bag targets). I said never again. So far HITs and just normal plain jane standard arrows are what I like. I have had pretty good luck with easton axis for the last few years.

 

[JeffRaines]

I fit the last hashtag....

I think we’ve all been there sir

 

[Gspjimmy]

Axis or Goldtip kinetic pierce

 

[LuvsFixedBlades]

I am needing to go to a stiffer spine for my new set up. Have been shooting GT Kinetic Kaos 300 spine and components they come with. Haven’t really had any problems with that setup. Needing to go to a 250 spine or in the case of of the kinetic a 200 spine.

It’s been awhile since I’ve shot a “normal” sized arrow, a .245 ID. Past 10 years or so I’ve shot .166 or .204 ID arrows. Real world experience, is there a noticeable difference in shooting a 204 arrow vs. a 245 arrow in the wind? Realistically the more wind the closer a guy can get to a critter and shouldn’t have to take a longer shot.

Here’s the arrow set ups I’m looking at. I probably can’t go wrong with any of them but looking for opinions.

#1 Easton Axis 5mm 260 about $125 cost
TAW 505-565 depending on insert used. 16gr stock insert or 50-75gr brass insert. Up to roughly 14% FOC again depending on insert.

#2 GT Black Label Quantum 250 about $160
TAW 470gr with stock components. About 12% FOC. No experience with these arrows. Slightly concerned with durability with this arrow.

#3 GT Kinetic Kaos 200 about $160
TAW 535gr with stock components. About 12% FOC

#4 GT Hunter XT 250 about $130 with 50 grain inserts
513gr with 50gr insert. 13% FOC

I’ve shot all these arrows in the past except the GT quantum. Slightly concerned with durability of these being a lighter weight shaft. Also with this shaft having to use “aftermarket” components to up arrow weight some. Used the GT FOC calculator to figure that for each arrow. My biggest concerns would be durability of arrow and shooting in the wind.

Thoughts?

Takeaways - you want a stiffer spined, more durable arrow that bucks the wind better.

If I was you, personally, I'd stick with .166 and go FMJ 250 with Iron Will components up front - HIT's and collars.
Lots of false statements in this thread. Good luck.

 

[fjmcguigan]

Easton 4mm Axis LR with iron will components worked out well for me last year.