Arrow Placement - Shot under heart?

[bm-55]

Jellymon1, no sir it wasn't but thanks bud! I was asking the thread starter.

ElkNut

Thanks, ElkNut - I added some additional details above.

Thanks for al the feedback.


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[RyanCmns]

I did the same thing in 2012 had a bull I guessed at 67yds put my 60 yard pin above the lungs let it go I thought I shot right under him (lighted nocks) arrow was covered in bright red blood 10 minutes before dark went to catch up for another shot within 50 yards I came up to puddles of blood thought it was heart and backed out to give him time 300 yards later he was circling cows no bull still haunts me! I went back had a buddy stand where the bull was when I shot range was 73


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[Coveyleader]

Heart shot elk can go further than 200yds. Way further

Are you speaking from experience? I have never seen any animal make it two football fields or way further on a “ True” heart shot I just can’t picture that happening.

I’ve seen elk unrecovered with low shots that looked to be good,

Good shot, elk go down very quick. Marginal shots is where they make you pay.

 

[cnelk]

I have never seen any animal make it two football fields or way further on a “ True” heart shot I just can’t picture that happening.

You da man.

 

[5MilesBack]

Are you speaking from experience? I have never seen any animal make it two football fields or way further on a “ True” heart shot I just can’t picture that happening.

I shot a cow broadside from 75 yards with a 30-06 one time. She never flinched and she never gave any indication that she was even hit. After a few seconds she just trotted off and over the ridge top. I tracked her in the snow for about 1/4 mile and finally found her slumped over a blowdown. When I cut her open, she had no heart at all. It was just soup and chunks in her chest cavity.

 

[KyleR1985]

I’ve had a few bow heart shot animals(not elk) make it well over 200 yards. I can’t imagine the Central nervous system, the will to live, or toughness in elk is any lower than any other critter.

Having said that, I’ve also had them stand within a few steps of where they were shot, and flip upside down within seconds.

I’ve never had one stop bleeding that had a razor sharp broadhead through its heart though.

 

[Coveyleader]

I'm glad I've never experienced those track jobs. Talk about head scratcher. All my heart shots have all been, walk straight to the animal no wait.

 

[Beendare]

You gotta shoot awfully low to miss the heart.

Just like Brad, I've seen heart shot animals go 200 yds....where a blade just nicked the heart. Poke one through the heart and they don't go far.

I shot one bull through the heart when he was fighting with another bull....he had just got done flipping the other bull on his back 10 steps from me.

That bull stood there staring down the other bull just like that famous pic of Ali and Frazier. The blood was literally pumping 8' out of both sides of him- like a dang squirt gun. After about 3 seconds [seemed like 20] he spotted me and took off only making it 15 yds and was running sideways as he went down. It was literally a 12' wide blood trail.

When their BP is up....those heart shots dump some blood on the ground.

____

 

[KineKilla]

Did I read that right that you used a 30yd pin on an uphill shot ranged at 25?

I'm under the impression that up or down slopes require you to hold for a lower distance than the line of sight. Gravity effect is only calculated for the horizontal distance, not the vertical.

When I range on a slope, my RF always gives me a lower "shoot to" distance than the actual line of sight distance.

I'd have thought you would have shot high instead of low...not sure.

It also seems feasible that you could possibly sneak an arrow through the brisket or just between the sternum and lung/heart. You could also slip one between the spine and top of lung.

It'd have to be a perfect storm but in the elk woods, strange things happen.

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[KyleR1985]

Did I read that right that you used a 30yd pin on an uphill shot ranged at 25?

I'm under the impression that up or down slopes require you to hold for a lower distance than the line of sight. Gravity effect is only calculated for the horizontal distance, not the vertical.

When I range on a slope, my RF always gives me a lower "shoot to" distance than the actual line of sight distance.

I'd have thought you would have shot high instead of low...not sure.

It also seems feasible that you could possibly sneak an arrow through the brisket or just between the sternum and lung/heart. You could also slip one between the spine and top of lung.

It'd have to be a perfect storm but in the elk woods, strange things happen.

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The lungs fill up the thoracic cavity. There's no way to slip an arrow between the lungs and the spine. When viewed from the side, they extend above the spine on either side of it. There's no way to slip an arrow between the lungs and the sternum, as the lungs are always in contact with the thoracic wall.

It is possible that you may inflict less tissue damage/hemorrhaging with the low hit described above I suppose. But if you hit any ungulate broadside, in front of the diaphragm, and below the spine, you will pass through both lungs in order to exit the body on the opposite side. "no man's land" doesn't exist. or rather, it refers to a shot through backstrap.

 

[cgasner1]

The lungs fill up the thoracic cavity. There's no way to slip an arrow between the lungs and the spine. When viewed from the side, they extend above the spine on either side of it. There's no way to slip an arrow between the lungs and the sternum, as the lungs are always in contact with the thoracic wall.

It is possible that you may inflict less tissue damage/hemorrhaging with the low hit described above I suppose. But if you hit any ungulate broadside, in front of the diaphragm, and below the spine, you will pass through both lungs in order to exit the body on the opposite side. "no man's land" doesn't exist. or rather, it refers to a shot through backstrap.

I hope you never hit no mans land when you put a arrow there you will become a believer


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[wapitibob]

Not likely.

 

[String&stick]

I think the point that is being made is there isn't noman's land. That's not saying you can't cut the top of the lungs, have it seal up, and that bull live, or die 2 days later.

It's just saying in a pressurised chest cavity the lungs are taking up the whole area. Now the outer edges are going to have less blood vessels, and they will be much smaller Vs center punching the lungs where arteries have just poured into the lungs and massive amounts of blood is starting to spread out to be oxygenized.

Visualize a shooting a pumpkin with a rifle. If you graze the top you typically just cut a groove. If you center up it may explode, or worse case you have a huge exit and cracks everywhere. If the pumpkin was full of blood. . . Grazing the top may mean it's fin and doesn't leak much, punch the middle and there's no coming back.

My abstract analysis of what I've read and discussed about lungs! MHO FWIW

 

[Blockcaver]

I shot a brown bear with a small three-blade head. One blade sliced the bottom of the heart. Was a pretty hairy tracking job through the thick willows along the river before we found the bear dead. Well over 200 yards...glad the guide was the late Roy Roth...just who you wanted to be with in those circumstances.

 

[Marble]

The first bull I killed had an arrow in it, above the lungs, below the spine, at about the crease. Broke one rib on the way in, stopped at the opposite side when it hit a rib. The arrow was a couple inches below the spine and the broadhead had scar tissue around it. It was probably Oct 20ish. Bull was typical 4 point in a 4 point or better zone.

Seems like there's plenty of real estate above and below the kill zone to let an animal get away when it comes to archery.

I was amazed the animal appeared to be totally normal. Ran and bugled like any other bull. No infection at all.

 

[Marble]

I hope you never hit no mans land when you put a arrow there you will become a believer


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Thats what happened to me when I saw that arrow. I became a believer and took note of the possibility. An inch higher it would have hit a huge artery. An inch or so lower and double lung FTW.

 

[Billy Goat]

The first bull I killed had an arrow in it, above the lungs, below the spine, at about the crease. Broke one rib on the way in, stopped at the opposite side when it hit a rib. The arrow was a couple inches below the spine and the broadhead had scar tissue around it. It was probably Oct 20ish. Bull was typical 4 point in a 4 point or better zone.

Seems like there's plenty of real estate above and below the kill zone to let an animal get away when it comes to archery.

I was amazed the animal appeared to be totally normal. Ran and bugled like any other bull. No infection at all.

Curious what broadhead? Doesn't tell the whole story by any means, I'm guessing it was a small head.

 

[KyleR1985]

The first bull I killed had an arrow in it, above the lungs, below the spine, at about the crease. Broke one rib on the way in, stopped at the opposite side when it hit a rib. The arrow was a couple inches below the spine and the broadhead had scar tissue around it. It was probably Oct 20ish. Bull was typical 4 point in a 4 point or better zone.

Seems like there's plenty of real estate above and below the kill zone to let an animal get away when it comes to archery.

I was amazed the animal appeared to be totally normal. Ran and bugled like any other bull. No infection at all.

How did the elk breathe before the Previous hunter shot it?

The only way for the elk’s lungs to not be touching the thoracic wall in the area you found the arrow, is for the chest cavity to not be completely sealed. The only way to break that seal is to breach the chest

I am making no statements as to the lethality of shots in this location, though I have my opinion.

I’m just providing some simple information on animal anatomy, hoping maybe it clears up some misconceptions about how things happen out there.

I won’t say never, I know better. But it seems incredibly difficult to believe this one elk discovered a different way to inflate his lungs than every other elk.

I could be convinced someone shot a small cutting diameter with dull blades, or a mechanical who’s blades broke off on impact or didn’t open, and said arrow did not create enough hemorrhaging to kill the elk. The arrow likely got sheared because it went through shoulder blade. Which would also explain the dulling and lack of penetration. And would aid in sealing up one hole Enough giving the elk a chance to recover.

But I’ll bet the farm a 3’ long arrow with a broadhead on it did not bend and redirect enough times to penetrate the chest cavity And find a path between the chest wall and lungs.

 

[Roughwater]

Cgasner1 ,

Ok, I was able to blow the pic up and see what you are talking about. It does look like there is a spot on the elk a little high and back.

 

[cgasner1]

It was higher than I had obviously hoped but with the extreme down angle and that being the entrance I really figured that bull was toast when the arrow hit him I spent about a hour watching him in the spotter when I took that picture couldn’t believe that it didn’t do the trick so I do believe there is a empty spot in there I’m sure it must have only clipped on lung at best


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