Arrow Dynamics: A Series on Hunting Arrows, By Daykota Kime

[bmart2622]

It is in the maximizing structural integrity thread

 

[dkime]

Do you know where the thread is on that?

I haven’t torture tested the TDT’s. I’m too cheap. Our test was done on the last generation of arrows. But I know a buddy of mine was literally swinging them like a baseball bat against some of his workout equipment and they didn’t even splinter.

Check out the thread titled, Maximizing the structural integrity of an arrow shaft (?)

 

[dkime]

Completely useless IMO. Lol

We built it for some bow efficiency tests. The bows we tested were STILL gaining kinetic energy/ momentum when we were over the 2000 grain mark.

And they'll continue to gain efficiencies until the end of time.....at least in a theoretical world. Impulse = Force X Time. The longer the the string is in contact with the arrow shaft, the longer a force is able to be applied to the arrow.

 

[SKYNET KC]

And they'll continue to gain efficiencies until the end of time.....at least in a theoretical world. Impulse = Force X Time. The longer the the string is in contact with the arrow shaft, the longer a force is able to be applied to the arrow.

Bingo, and cam efficiency. And the gain isn't linear, to say the least. My buddy has two sets of arrows that are 850 and 950 grains. There is a 5 (yes, FIVE) FPS difference between the two of them.

 

[dkime]

I'm in the process of doing a bunch of research on all of this, what is his setup like if you don't mind me asking? Trad or Compound?

 

[SKYNET KC]

I'm in the process of doing a bunch of research on all of this, what is his setup like if you don't mind me asking? Trad or Compound?

compound. Shoot me a message. I think we're going down the same path for what you're researching.

 

[Justin Crossley]

The second article in this series is live. Check it out.

Arrow Dynamics: Worth The Weight

 

[dkime]

The second article in this series is live. Check it out.

Arrow Dynamics: Worth The Weight

Thanks Justin, I understand that in the archery world there are a lot of holes to be filled and that we want so clearly for things to be defined for the sake of simplicity but with the level of variables we experience as bowhunters it's implausible to think there's a one size fits all approach to our setups. I wanted to set forth my criteria for arrow selection as a follow up to the FOC article to provide a different paradigm than what we commonly hear.

 

[BigCountry49]

Good post, I think a lot of people completely overthink their arrow set-up.

 

[dkime]

Good post, I think a lot of people completely overthink their arrow set-up.

I tend to be one of those people in all facets of my life so I know what you mean. Throughout years of struggle I’ve come to realize they all work, it’s just a matter of personal preference

 

[Idaho Lefty]

The FOC and arrow weight, "balance" becomes an extremely important Topic, to People, shooting 45 to 60 Pound pull Bows, that want, to Hunt, Elk or, Moose ! My son's 73 lb. PSE Decree with, a 505 grain Arrow ( 14% FOC ) 29" pull, travelling at 280ish FPS has punched thru, several Elk and a Shiras Moose, with NO problem and they "fly" great ! Currently, I'm using a 455 grain, 14% FOC arrow at, 237-240 FPS and it Penetrates "well",.. but has, a "Rainbow arc" ! So, I am now building, a 415 grain arrow, 11% FOC, 4 fletch w/ 3" Super Spine vanes, 100 gr Striker, trying to get that that "ARC" down / Velocity UP, a bit, in my PSE, DNA SP 53 pound Bow at 28" pull. All 5 of my Pins (30-70 yds) fit, in the sight housing, but past 40 yards, the arrow, drops, a bunch and I must, "Range" and estimate, perfectly. I'm looking for, the "Holy Grail' arrow, for this Bow,.. lots of Fun!

 

[dkime]

The FOC and arrow weight, "balance" becomes an extremely important Topic, to People, shooting 45 to 60 Pound pull Bows, that want, to Hunt, Elk or, Moose ! My son's 73 lb. PSE Decree with, a 505 grain Arrow ( 14% FOC ) 29" pull, travelling at 280ish FPS has punched thru, several Elk and a Shiras Moose, with NO problem and they "fly" great ! Currently, I'm using a 455 grain, 14% FOC arrow at, 237-240 FPS and it Penetrates "well",.. but has, a "Rainbow arc" ! So, I am now building, a 415 grain arrow, 11% FOC, 4 fletch w/ 3" Super Spine vanes, 100 gr Striker, trying to get that that "ARC" down / Velocity UP, a bit, in my PSE, DNA SP 53 pound Bow at 28" pull. All 5 of my Pins (30-70 yds) fit, in the sight housing, but past 40 yards, the arrow, drops, a bunch and I must, "Range" and estimate, perfectly. I'm looking for, the "Holy Grail' arrow, for this Bow,.. lots of Fun!

In the second article I spent some time talking about trajectory and in my next efforts I will cover this more extensively. I stopped talking about drop at 40yds in the article because after that things really begin to fall of the table. Because you are shooting a 5 pin sight you are probably more forgiving than what you think, each pin should give you a few yards off error on each side with your heavier setup. Probably only 1 yard each way at 60 and 70 but still enough incase the animal moves some

 

[Idaho Lefty]

You are right since ALL, the Pins "fit' in the sight Housing, why am I not "happy" with this, arrow ? LOL !
Last year, I was happy about, this, "set up" ! This year, I'm llooking for that "Balanced Arrow" with, good penetration and a flat Tradjectory,.. AKA, the "Holy Grail" arrow for this poundage of, Bow. I guess that's what makes the World go round and us buying, more "stuff" ! My New arrow is, a 28" Gold Tip XT Hunter, with an 11 grain insert, a 20 gr Fact, 100 gr points/ Strikers, 4, 3" Super Spines w/ 3* Helical, for a total 417-418 grains and they shoot,.. NICE, so far ! I will have to shoot distance with, FBH's and do penetration tests, to "prove it". It's hard to find very much Info, on light poundage Bow/ Arrow set up's, but have found, some. Hopefully, you can shed some light, on different things about, Bows / Hunting Arrows with, this new Bow Hunting Series,.. Good Luck !!

 

[dkime]

You let me know when you find that Holy Grail because we’re all still searching! I think it falls somewhere near 230gr and 3000fps haha in all seriousness that’s why we do this, it’s necessary to learn what works best for our given style of hunting and the game we are most often chasing. Keep playing, keep learning, try not to spend all your money on arrows and save a little extra for some tags


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[Idaho Lefty]

I believe that, you and my son, have found that "Holy Grail", Arrow for, the 70 Pound Bows at,
485-525 grains. I have, a good amount of hope that, my New Arrow will work on Elk, as my grandson shot/ killed, a fairly large, cow Elk with, a 350 grain arrow, FBH, 310 IBO Bow, 25" draw length, set at 43 pounds, the shot was at 30-32 yards and the Shuttle T, was poking out the far side of Rib's/hide. We tracked Blood for 130 yards and have pic's of a very happy 14 year old, needless to say that, my son and I are, very proud of him ! I think I will be ok, since I draw, 28.5", 342 IBO and hoping to go about, 260 FPS with that, 417 grain arrow.

 

[dkime]

That’s awesome congrats for you and your family on his elk! I’m sure he’s completely hooked now, what heads have you shot in the past?


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[Idaho Lefty]

I have stuck with, Strikers and VPA 100 gr vented, for my lower poundage set up, as they fly right with, my FP's to 70 yards. My grandson now 19 y/o, shoots Wac'em's. My son has tried several BH's, over the years, like Shuttle T's, Exodus, Strikers and is currently using, Slick trick, standards. Sadly, the Exodus did NOT fly good for, my set up.

 

[Idaho Lefty]

Found out that, my 4 fletch arrows, are hitting (brushing) the top of, my QAD Ultrarest "Launcher Fork" a tiny bit as, the arrow, goes across it and I can't "index" it out or, the other Vane hits ! The Bow "tunes" an arrow almost midway thru the Berger Hole ( LOW on riser ). I'm going back to a 3 Fletch as there is more "clearance" with 120*, 3 Fletch vs the 90* of the 4 Fletch ! I was getting great groups one Day with, the 4 Fletch then, checked it again and found Vertical grouping was bad ( always re-test ) So I'm shedding, one Vane and a 20 grain FACT which amounts to 27 grains less arrow weight. I will stop there as, this Arrow will weigh about 430 grains and have 13.3% FOC. The other, lighter arrow had only 11.2% FOC and I want penetration ( momentum ) from the heavier arrow / more FOC. I will live with the bit more "drop" to get the penetration for an Elk arrow and scrap, the "Lighter Arrow", idea ,.. LOL !

 

[dkime]

I'm glad that you were able to find the issue! I played with 4 fletch and 3 fletch quite a bit this year and saw little difference in performance from a grouping perspective but the bow shoots bullet holes with bareshafts as well. I'm going to be running some tests to look at 4 fletch and 3 fletch combinations very soon!

 

[Idaho Lefty]

YUP, I'm very happy to have found the problem ! "Some" of the PSE Bows are, a PITA to get set up correctly and my DNA SP, L-H model has been a "challenge" as the riser seems to be cut, a bit too small with, NO real, Vane clearance ! Using the smaller vanes like the 2.5" or, 3" V-Maxes, 2.88" Swifts and Super Spines,.. I'm Golden, tho. The Blazer styles, were too big ! I am a little dissapointed that the 90* four Fletch won't work but, I feel that, I can get good accuracy with, a good tune , properly "matched" Vanes, arrow weight and descent FOC #'s. I look forward to your testing, do you have access to a Hooter Shooter ? I like an equal "Test" where only ONE arrow component, is changed at a time, an "Apples to Apples" comparison. Good luck and, keep us posted !