Arrow Build

[rvalleyp]

Hey guys I'm looking for help building arrows for my new bow. My last arrows I went with the axis 4mm, no big problems with them but I don't think 4mm are worth the extra trouble so I'm looking at 5mm this round. No preference on brand for arrows or components but would like to be around 280-285 fps when done.

Bow specs
Hoyt rx8
80lbs
29" draw
Current arrows are 29" long

 

[Mighty Mouse]

550 gr total arrow weight should get you close to your desired speed at 29" DL/80# DW. Below are a couple 5mm options that would work.

Easton 5mm Axis, 260 spine, 28" carbon-to-carbon length, 125 gr head + 75 gr HIT + 3 vanes at 7 gr/ea + 9 gr nock = 552 gr TAW


Black Eagle Renegade, 250 spine, 28" carbon-to-carbon length, 150 gr head + 75 gr HIT + 3 vanes at 7 gr/ea + 9 gr nock = 557 gr TAW

 

[rvalleyp]

Thank you for the recommendations

Question to better understand, does broadhead weight matter or only total weight
Example.. would there be any difference pro or con to adding a 25g collar and using a 100g broadhead in the axis example

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Question to better understand, does broadhead weight matter or only total weight
Example.. would there be any difference pro or con to adding a 25g collar and using a 100g broadhead in the axis example

Weight distribution doesn't affect speed; speed is a function of total arrow weight. Front end vs. back end weight distribution does affect dynamic spine. Weight distribution amongst the components on the front end has a negligible effect on spine...an arrow with a 125 gr broadhead + 75 gr insert will be identical spine-wise to a 100 gr head + 25 gr collar + 75 gr insert. I personally think collars are unnecessary, but to each his own.

 

[Eastonsgrandpa]

First thing I’d say is take that arrow down an inch and a half in length. I too shoot 29” and cut mine to 27” carbon to carbon but have a podium halfsert that sticks out 1/2 inch. Favorite arrow is the RIP TKO in a 250 spine. My halfsert is 30 grains. Broadhead is 150. Three Q2i 2.5 vanes and a Bohning A nock. Arrows are right around 450 grains and traveling at 285. I shoot 75 pounds so you’d have a few more FPS.

 

[Marble]

Thank you for the recommendations

Question to better understand, does broadhead weight matter or only total weight
Example.. would there be any difference pro or con to adding a 25g collar and using a 100g broadhead in the axis example

My opinion...the less stuff like collars and whatever you put on the end of your arrow, the cheaper and less complicated they are. Plus, every time you add something, you add tolerances that need to stay in spec.

If you want, you can use Easton broadhead adapter rings. They are 5 grains and can be added to your arrows when you put a broadhead on.

Just my opinion. Other feel differently.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

 

[big44a4]

Hey guys I'm looking for help building arrows for my new bow. My last arrows I went with the axis 4mm, no big problems with them but I don't think 4mm are worth the extra trouble so I'm looking at 5mm this round. No preference on brand for arrows or components but would like to be around 280-285 fps when done.

Bow specs
Hoyt rx8
80lbs
29" draw
Current arrows are 29" long

Id go with a 250 spine RIP TKO or SS. Use a standard or aluminum hit insert along with a titanium collar and 100gr head. That arrow setup is the most durable I’ve seen. As others have noted I’d cut your arrow shorter as well. Im 29.5” draw with 27.5” arrows.

Here’s a picture of my elk arrow from this past year RIP SS (aluminum hit and TI collar) where rage trypan NC with titanium ferrule broke and my arrow is fine.

 

[ben@bpetersondds]

Man, I’ve gone down the rabbit hole here with these inserts. I broke an arrow off at the Broadhead last year on a bull using VAPs, their aluminum half outs and an exodus BH. Now I am convinced it had to do with my inserts….but with all this information I am having a hard time understanding a few of the concepts mentioned on this and a few other threads.

Can someone please explain a couple things to me? 1. How do full inserts help avoid splitting or mushrooming of the shaft vs half outs? 2. Can you run full inserts (Easton HIT brass) in a VAP tko and run a standard size broadhead? 3. Are the Easton titanium half outs a good option for the VAP tko?

Thanks in advance guys. I did just post this on a second thread. Just hoping to get as much input in a quick response as I can. Going shopping for parts later today.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

1. How do full inserts help avoid splitting or mushrooming of the shaft vs half outs?

For a micro diameter (4mm/.166") shaft like a VAP you have two basic insert options:

1. Deep Six hidden insert (HIT)
2. Half-out

A HIT sits fully inside the shaft and keeps the entire head/point shank inside the shaft. This is the only micro diameter option I would personally consider, but it severely limits your broadhead choices because a 4mm HIT uses 6-40 threads (instead of typical 8-32 threads). Very few manufacturers offer Deep Six heads (Iron Will, QAD, Sevr, maybe a few others). Micro diameter half-outs come in various designs (single piece, multi-piece, often paired with an external sleeve/collar), but they all put the entire head/point shank in front of the arrow shaft. That extra length sticking out in front of the shaft amplifies the pressure exerted on the front end of the arrow when you hit something at an angle and is more likely to bend/break the half-out and/or split the wall of the arrow shaft.

2. Can you run full inserts (Easton HIT brass) in a VAP tko and run a standard size broadhead?

No. A 4mm HIT is only compatible with Deep Six (6-40 threaded) broadheads. A 5mm HIT uses standard 8-32 threads, but the thread form has to be scaled down to 6-40 to fit in a 4mm shaft.

3. Are the Easton titanium half outs a good option for the VAP tko?

Better than an aluminum half-out, about the same as a steel half-out, but still inferior (in terms of strength/durability) to a HIT.

 

[ben@bpetersondds]

Thank you so much for the reply! This really helps. One question. It appears the VAP RIP and VAP TKO are different diameters and from what I’ve read the TKO RIP would except a brass insert with the 8-32 head? If this is the case, it looks like you might sacrifice some wind drift and kinetic energy for better durability? What has been really confusing is the two types of TKO aarows…VAP TKO and RIP TKO. I just assumed there was only one with the narrowest diameter.

And thank you again! Really appreciate the reply. Ben.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Thank you so much for the reply! This really helps. One question. It appears the VAP RIP and VAP TKO are different diameters and from what I’ve read the TKO RIP would except a brass insert with the 8-32 head? If this is the case, it looks like you might sacrifice some wind drift and kinetic energy for better durability? What has been really confusing is the two types of TKO aarows…VAP TKO and RIP TKO. I just assumed there was only one with the narrowest diameter.

And thank you again! Really appreciate the reply. Ben.

All VAP models have a 4mm/.166" inside diameter. All RIP models have a 5mm/.204" ID. You could indeed put a HIT in a RIP shaft and use a standard 8-32 threaded head.

Kinetic energy will be identical for either shaft model at the same total arrow weight shot out of the same bow. Victory makes some misleading claims about KE vs. arrow size on their website...it's hogwash written by a marketer who doesn't understand physics.

Wind drift in theory will be slightly less for a VAP than a RIP. IMO the wind drift difference will be too small to notice and definitely not enough to justify having to deal with the 4mm insert conundrum.

The TKO designation (or lack thereof) has no bearing on the shaft diameter. I think the TKO versions use a slightly different grade of carbon than the non-TKO versions.

 

[ben@bpetersondds]

Thank you for this explanation too. I am leaning towards the Rip aarows with 50grn Easton brass inserts (on the fence with collars), AAE Max 2.0 fletching, lit nock and Exodus swept 100 grn.

 

[JK47]

This is a timely thread. I’m needing new arrows as well. Leaning towards the RIP SS. Shooting 81 pounds now. 29 1/4” draw. Gonna go with 250 spine.

I was gonna run the RIP TKO’s, but with my draw weight/length, I can send a heavier arrow with gobs of energy and still have respectable speed….I think.

This is why I’m responding….have you looked at the Iron Will HIT system? I’ve been looking into it and it seems pretty impressive. Options of how heavy the insert is and a 10 or 25 grain impact collar.

 

[N2TRKYS]

Why deal with all the headaches going smaller than normal diameter sized arrows?

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Thank you for this explanation too. I am leaning towards the Rip aarows with 50grn Easton brass inserts (on the fence with collars), AAE Max 2.0 fletching, lit nock and Exodus swept 100 grn.

Sounds like a good setup. One word of caution: I've heard several folks (here and elsewhere) report troubles with poor adhesion when trying to glue a HIT in a RIP shaft. IIRC Easton's epoxy often performed poorly. @5MilesBack and @ncavi8tor might be willing to offer some advice on this topic.