Arrow build advice

[RAM190Hog]

Doing my first arrow build. Targeting ~480 grains for my PSE Carbon Mach 1 @ 65-70lbs.

Specs are below...all the components are on their way...but I have a few questions for the experienced folks here:

1. Shafts are Victory RIP TKO 250s. When Victory says "spine aligned"...do I need to use the spine alignment markings as baseline for my index fletching and/or should this be oriented "up" when nocked / on rest? My understanding is compound bows will flex the arrows primarily in the vertical, so I would want the stiffest spine in that axis?

2. Did a spin test with a bare shaft arrow, and my arrows are coming off the bow with left twist, so I am planning a left helical with Max Hunter vanes? Any other recommendations here?

Thanks for any advice!

Victory RIP TKO 250 spine, cut to 29.75"
125 points
25gr Iron Will insert
10gr Iron Will collar
3 x AAE Max Hunter, left helical
4" white wrap, ~5gr
Nockturnal lighted nocks ~25gr

My math comes out to right around 477 grains with FOC right around 13%.

 

[trailblazer75]

You'll likely land at the 480-483 mark in my experience.

You're clocking correctly. Remember that when you have strings replaced, depending on the string maker, you'll need to ensure they twist left to match your arrow/fletching orientation.

I always put the cock vane on the stiffest part of the spine and put that up.

I personally buy and use AAE hybrids. The 26 to be exact. Same shape as the max stealth but they're pre-primed and stick better in my experience. Max stealths work perfectly well but you will need to buy the primer pen and its best to use the Max bond glue with them.

 

[Billy Goat]

The spine alignment marks aren't going to line up with where some of the arrows actually need to be. I do generally fletch for the alignment marks to be vertical when nocked, but 2 out of 6 will usually get the nock rotated when I'm group tuning the shafts.


I'm still not convinced it's worth fletching shafts for rotation. I do it, but I haven't been able to find a difference. Also can see a benefit to fletching them opposite how they want to leave the bow because it will put drag on the back of the shaft faster. I don't think either amounts to anything.

 

[Bump79]

Great setup. I'd agree with @Billy Goat a lot of the tinking stuff talked about on YouTube or online you'll never be able to tell.

 

[nvkevin]

I run a setup very close to yours. Same arrows but 300 spine cut to 29.5” and I don’t use the lighted nocks, but I’ll be changing that this year. Currently I’m at 469 grains by my math, scale says 457 but it’s a shitty scale.

Anyway, I align the factory spine marks to be at 12 o’clock when in the bow, so cock vane up. I agree with the statement that you’ll most likely have to twist a few nocks. My setup shoots pretty solid though. I’m happy with it.

FYI, I shoot a Prime Inline 3 at 69 lbs and I’m getting 282 fps out of this setup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Sounds like a great arrow.

1. I don't think keeping the spine alignment marks in any particular orientation really matters. Fletching with the intention of the alignment mark being at 12 o'clock is as good a choice as any, but it may well end up at 4 or 8 o'clock after you nock tune your finished arrows. An aesthetic point to consider: I like to use all same color vanes because I don't know until afterward which one will end up being the "cock" vane. If you use a traditional 2-color pattern, your odd-colored vane may not always end up pointed in the same direction after nock tuning (which may or may not matter to you).

2. I don't think fletching to complement bareshaft rotation direction really matters. Even if they're mismatched, the rotation imparted by the fletching will quickly overpower the rotation imparted by the bowstring. But if you already have a left offset/helical fletching jig, go for it. The only reason I can think of to maybe avoid fletching to the left is if you want to shoot a single bevel broadhead someday. Bevel direction and fletching direction should match so both components work together to rotate the arrow in the same direction, and right bevel heads are much more common than left bevel.

3. I've heard some anecdotal accounts of difficulty getting hidden inserts to adhere securely to RIP shafts. I believe I recall @ncavi8tor mentioning this, although I don't recall what adhesive he ended up using.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

looks like a good setup, but what's your draw length?

I'm at 28.5", shoot a mach1 at 70#, and have no issues using a 300 spine gold tip with a 100 gr head +41 gr insert set up, archer's advantage actually shows it on the stiff side.

also, the max hunter is a really loud vane. if you haven't already bought them, consider the max stealth. same durability, similar steering, same complex fletching process, way, way quiter. It's very noticeable to my ear.

 

[nphunter]

I bet you will be between 480-490gr.

I built some RIP TKO 250s a while back,

27.5" CTC, 50gr HIT, 25gr collar, 5" reflective wrap, 6 AAE PM 2.0's and 100gr tips came in at 496gr.

Those arrows will still be stiff out of your bow, a lot of people shoot stiff arrows, I guess my thought on that is that there are different spines for a reason, if spine didn't matter there would only be 1 spine available.



Currently I'm shooting 73lbs, 28" draw, RX4

RIP TKO 300's 26" CTC, 100gr IW SS HIT's, 25gr IW Collar, 6 AAE PM2.0's, 5" wrap and they weigh 500gr on the dot and right at 20% FOC

 

[Yoder]

The Max hunter vanes are really loud. So much that I noticed it. I'm shooting the Max Stealth. I highly recommend the Primer Pen. I found if you prime the vane, put the glue on as soon as the primer dries. If you leave it sit too long, the vanes won't stick.

 

[RAM190Hog]

looks like a good setup, but what's your draw length?

I'm at 28.5", shoot a mach1 at 70#, and have no issues using a 300 spine gold tip with a 100 gr head +41 gr insert set up, archer's advantage actually shows it on the stiff side.

also, the max hunter is a really loud vane. if you haven't already bought them, consider the max stealth. same durability, similar steering, same complex fletching process, way, way quiter. It's very noticeable to my ear.

I am 30" @ 70#. I think it's right on the edge of 250 vs 300 spine. I decided to go a little over spine in case I decide to throw a heavier insert or collar on there at some point. I figured better to be a littler over spine vs under spine.

Thanks for the input & advice. I think maybe I will build 3-5 w the Max Hunters, and maybe try some max stealths and do some shooting and decide what I like best. Then I'll just have to figure out how to remove and re-fletch with final arrow!

 

[RAM190Hog]

The Max hunter vanes are really loud. So much that I noticed it. I'm shooting the Max Stealth. I highly recommend the Primer Pen. I found if you prime the vane, put the glue on as soon as the primer dries. If you leave it sit too long, the vanes won't stick.

I have heard this as well, bought the primer pen and max bond from AAE.

 

[Lee_Caldwell]

I’m using the TAC vanes with the TAC glue.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

If you use wraps it will be easier to remove those fletchings without messing up your arrow when you're ready to finalize your configuration.

Edit, nvm I see you're already planning to use wraps.

 

[Yoder]

I experimented with the glue and primer a little. If I primed the vane, let it sit a few minutes, then glued it on, they would uusually rip off. If I glued it as soon as the primer dried, they rarely ripped off. I'm not sure why. I also think the primer is just rubbing alcohol.

 

[RockyMountainWest]

Arrow builds get pretty daunting

 

[pingsc]

1. I don't think keeping the spine alignment marks in any particular orientation really matters. Fletching with the intention of the alignment mark being at 12 o'clock is as good a choice as any, but it may well end up at 4 or 8 o'clock after you nock tune your finished arrows. An aesthetic point to consider: I like to use all same color vanes because I don't know until afterward which one will end up being the "cock" vane. If you use a traditional 2-color pattern, your odd-colored vane may not always end up pointed in the same direction after nock tuning (which may or may not matter to you).

Maybe this is a stupid question, but all the write-ups that I've seen for nock tuning have you do it bareshaft. What does nock tuning the finished arrow get you vs. doing it bareshaft?

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but all the write-ups that I've seen for nock tuning have you do it bareshaft. What does nock tuning the finished arrow get you vs. doing it bareshaft?

Adding vanes will affect dynamic spine, so the optimal orientation determined via bareshaft nock tuning could conceivably change once vanes are added. The effect on dynamic spine is likely small, but I'm still going to nock tune my fletched shafts since that's what I'll be hunting with and i don't want to go through two rounds of nock tuning.

 

[Five-oh-deuce]

Doing my first arrow build. Targeting ~480 grains for my PSE Carbon Mach 1 @ 65-70lbs.

Specs are below...all the components are on their way...but I have a few questions for the experienced folks here:

1. Shafts are Victory RIP TKO 250s. When Victory says "spine aligned"...do I need to use the spine alignment markings as baseline for my index fletching and/or should this be oriented "up" when nocked / on rest? My understanding is compound bows will flex the arrows primarily in the vertical, so I would want the stiffest spine in that axis?

2. Did a spin test with a bare shaft arrow, and my arrows are coming off the bow with left twist, so I am planning a left helical with Max Hunter vanes? Any other recommendations here?

Thanks for any advice!

Victory RIP TKO 250 spine, cut to 29.75"
125 points
25gr Iron Will insert
10gr Iron Will collar
3 x AAE Max Hunter, left helical
4" white wrap, ~5gr
Nockturnal lighted nocks ~25gr

My math comes out to right around 477 grains with FOC right around 13%.

I wouldn’t pay any attention to the spine markings. Once the arrow’s cut to length it’s going to change the spine of the arrow. From the ones I’ve tested on a spine tester it never lines up with the marking.