Argument - RF binos vs Stabilizing?

[mj23polaris]

Oh and I looked through the Oscar 6 spotter and wasn’t impressed. It was overcast when I looked through it and it seemed like a very small clear image with a lot of the edge being blurry. Others may think differently but i think the glass lacks in it and would just stick to a traditional spotter on a tripod.


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[doc holiday13]

Tough call. For me. I'm going RF bino's. If i'm doing that much glassing I have a tripod and I'm too poor for horses so i won't be glassing off a horses back. I have the 10K binos and they also provide the shooting solution so its kind of like having 3 piece of equipment in 1

If I shot more 3d archery image stabilizing would be nice. Image stabilizing really shines when you get into the 12x+ magnification and you're not in position to get a steady rest.

 

[Kenny Hart]

So got a pair of 14x Zulu hdx pro’s off a prize table shortly after getting a pair of 12x50 maven b6s.

I also own revic br10s and use them for NRL hunter matches.

I don’t use the mavens that much anymore.

Been on some scouting trips lately and yeah at 2mins past shooting light are they as good as NL pures or the mavens no.

I have a maven s3 spotter and I’ll put that on the tripod and turn it sideways and put the 14s on top of the scope body and glass. If I see something turn the spotter and see what it is if it’s far away. Aziak has a tripod mount for them I will be buying. But just being able to walk a ridge line and glass with 14s wholly shit boys, game changer. Like IMO the glass is good enough in these it won’t hold you back. I used them at TAC in red lodge and was constantly glassing the area and in the timber. I think for 90% of situations hunting they rock.

Now for me there is some times I miss my maven 15s. I feel like they had more FOV and the low light with the 56mm was better. But my spotter on 20x makes up for that, and do use my spotter on the low end a lot.

Sig guy at tac told me within a year they will have rangefinder built into the stabilized binos. At that point it’s game over, esp if they do a 12x50 with AB built in with the same glass as the HDX pros.

So going into this fall I’ll probably be running the sigs on my chest and a Revic br4 rangefinder for my ballistics. The pros of the sigs are more valuable to me then the pros of the revics and mavens.


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That's pretty exciting news.

If they are able to have a good, reliable rangefinder put into a 10x42 or even 12x42 unit in the regular HDX form factor with an acceptable FOV, I would probably sell my SFs. The current 200' is pretty bad, but it's because it's accomplished by essentially just projecting a smaller image from the 16X to the user from what I can tell.

Keeping the IPX7 water-resistance rating of the Zulus vs the class-losing IPX4 of all their rangefinders is also a must, as we get dumped on every afternoon of bow season here in FL. I just refuse to stake my hunt on something that says it "should" withstand some water drops.

The loss of collimation is still a concern, as I don't want a pair of binos that have to go back to Sig after every season. But I'm really looking forward to seeing what the next iteration of this tech looks like.

 

[180ls1]

These are those Fuji binos I mentioned... no RF built in, but I'd wager that they are better glass than the Sig offerings.

View attachment 900308
Link to Fuji Binos

Very cool. Has anyone compared these or what are you basing that wager off of?

 

[mflo]

Very cool. Has anyone compared these or what are you basing that wager off of?

Well, I don't have optical performance data to back up the wager. Just personal experience viewing through the first gen Sigs - which to my eyes were not good glass, and these being pretty good. Like,
big 3 glass good. I don't have experience with the latest version of the Sigs.

I'm basing that off of currently having a set of Swaro SLCs (10x42 and 15x56) and having owned Leica Geovid 3200.com 10x42s.

I would love to test these side by side against the Sigs. But without some hard data I don't want to say for sure. Just that these are definitely worth taking a look at.

 

[nm.otter]

The Sig, Kite, and Opticron are all the same binocular made in China with slightly different OEM shell. I could not fund anything about country of origin for the Fujis, and the extremely similar look/design tells me they probably also come from the same place.

From the Fuji link:
Country of Manufacture: Japan

 

[180ls1]

Well, I don't have optical performance data to back up the wager. Just personal experience viewing through the first gen Sigs - which to my eyes were not good glass, and these being pretty good. Like,
big 3 glass good. I don't have experience with the latest version of the Sigs.

I'm basing that off of currently having a set of Swaro SLCs (10x42 and 15x56) and having owned Leica Geovid 3200.com 10x42s.

I would love to test these side by side against the Sigs. But without some hard data I don't want to say for sure. Just that these are definitely worth taking a look at.

Seems like the 1st gen were poor glass, 2nd gen is OK glass and 3rd is no improvement so just OK glass again. I would be VERY interested if the Fuji's were a step up from the 2nd and 3rd gen Sigs.

 

[DuckDawg22]

I tend to get better locks on my RF binos than a single-handed range finder, too bouncy in my experience. Using gyros from a boat looking for tuna is an absolute game changer and I can imagine that tech in the field would be nice, but one more thing to carry. My RF pouch on my chest pack is full of snacks

 

[Kenny Hart]

From the Fuji link:
Country of Manufacture: Japan

I see that, but I don't know what that means. Did Fujifilm design the stabilization system independent of China? Do they order the mechanism and add their own objectives glass?

It does look slightly different than the models I pointed out, which are all obviously the exact same bino, but the ocular design and focus wheel are nearly identical. Does that mean they made the entire thing, but order the oculars? You just have to check into these manufactured claims, but that doesn't mean they will offer it up.

I work in the metrology optics field, and almost all the major manufacturers full-on advertise the same OEM'd scanner completely reverse-engineered in China from a North-American design, manufactured in China, after which they purchase and throw their own housing on to advertise "Made in Country X."

 

[gtriple]

Sig guy at tac told me within a year they will have rangefinder built into the stabilized binos. At that point it’s game over, esp if they do a 12x50 with AB built in with the same glass as the HDX pros.

Heck yea!!!!

 

[Oregonhuntrboi]

I personally love the IS binos. I’ve had all generations of them and various magnifications. But unfortunately, I’ve had to warranty 4 pairs. And due to the lack of reliability I am switching to RF binos and shelving the IS.

 

[alexnelon]

I see that, but I don't know what that means. Did Fujifilm design the stabilization system independent of China? Do they order the mechanism and add their own objectives glass?

It does look slightly different than the models I pointed out, which are all obviously the exact same bino, but the ocular design and focus wheel are nearly identical. Does that mean they made the entire thing, but order the oculars? You just have to check into these manufactured claims, but that doesn't mean they will offer it up.

I work in the metrology optics field, and almost all the major manufacturers full-on advertise the same OEM'd scanner completely reverse-engineered in China from a North-American design, manufactured in China, after which they purchase and throw their own housing on to advertise "Made in Country X."

Fuji has been making image stabilization systems for optical devices for decades and decades.

I’d bet the farm that Fuji or Canon own the patents that china ripped off to supply Sig in the first place.

Oh and Nikon released a stabilized spotting scope 15 years ago. It flopped because they’re useless.

This tech is old and tired but Sig is capitalizing on the fact that the hunting community lives under a rock and is 20 years behind birdwatchers.

 

[nm.otter]

Fuji has been making image stabilization systems for optical devices for decades and decades.

Back in the 1980s, a Fujinon TV zoom lens could set you back $40k.

 

[mflo]

Back in the 1980s, a Fujinon TV zoom lens could set you back $40k.

The Fujinon HZK25 25-1000mm Duvo box lens today costs $265k.

 

[180ls1]

How good is their stability? I watched the youtube video and it looked pretty floaty. If they don't have a target mode (sig style) that is a big drawback. Everything else seems excellent though.

 

[nm.otter]

The Fujinon HZK25 25-1000mm Duvo box lens today costs $265k.

Yep -- roughly the cost of a house (still).

 

[mflo]

How good is their stability? I watched the youtube video and it looked pretty floaty. If they don't have a target mode (sig style) that is a big drawback. Everything else seems excellent though.

There's no lock mode as far as I can tell, so floaty is a good description. But it all comes down to how steady you can handhold them. When I brace my elbows, it's almost as good as being on a tripod.

 

[180ls1]

There's no lock mode as far as I can tell, so floaty is a good description. But it all comes down to how steady you can handhold them. When I brace my elbows, it's almost as good as being on a tripod.

Thanks. That still may be a deal killer in my end.

I use the Sigs on my trekking pole and don’t find a need for a tripod when doing so. I also find that I essentially never use the scan mode, *always* target.

 

[nm.otter]

Is there a settings mode where you can adjust time constants?

 

[Str8shooter]

When moving through thicker country and glassing smaller pockets or areas that dont offer great vantages and sustained tripod work, the IS are super sweet but for bigger vistas, upper tier glass on a tripod is still tops and that includes RF binos. Ive used both the sig HDX 16s and the Leica RFs for a couple hunts in CO and NM and still have the geovid pros. There is a substantial efficiency gain in the final seconds of a stalk confirming range, and getting drop data in my binos without adding the additional movement and 10-15 seconds of reacquiring and confirming with the handheld RF, and if you have a tripod for shooting or spotter already, the stability, clarity and movement detection capability of sitting and glassing on a tripod, still outweigh the stability gains of IS free hand. RF, IS, alpha glass in one will sure be something when it comes though.