Are diesel engines overrated?

[Wrench]

If there were a rig to compete with my powerstroke excursion which can haul 7 people plus gear and not know there's a 16k trailer behind AND get 12-15mpg doing it.....I'd consider.

I have 2 cummins trucks as well and they are used to drag heavy stuff.....and they do it better than any gas truck. My 97 12v will out pull my 5500 4x4 but the brakes are not even close. I wish I could get the torque and economy of a tuned 12v in a new truck....but to do so means a lot of law skirting and potential expensive burn downs.

For a going to town rig, lots of stsrt amd stops rig or light tow rig....gas makes a lot of sense. It also depends on your mechanical competency. If stuck with dealer service....I'd heavily leverage that into the choice.

 

[nobody]

Old ones, no. New ones, abso-freakin-lutely they’re overrated.

Older diesels give you all the perks of diesel such as torque and hp and do so over an extremely long useful life with relatively simple maintenance schedules.

New ones still give you all the power and torque perks, but do so at the expensive of a $15,000 ticking time bomb underneath it in the form of their stupid emission systems.

Example #1: Father in law has lost two 6.7 power strokes at just a tick under 100k miles, catastrophic engine failures caused by the DEF system. Luckily they were under warranty, but after they blew on him and he got them fixed he traded them off. First one traded for a new 6.7, and when that second one blew, he traded for the 7.3 gasser from ford.

Example #2: I work for a masonry company, we aren’t giant but we do everything from small repair jobs all the way up to schools and huge custom homes and LDS temples. We do block, brick, stone, pavers, and custom fireplaces. We have a fleet of about 25 pickups, 20 of them are 1 ton diesels, and they’re ALWAYS loaded to the gills and towing a ton. We have a couple of 2007 LBZ Duramax’s that are just a touch under 500k miles now. Most everything else we own is about 2015 and newer. A couple of fords, but primarily GM’s. The ford’s have cost us the most to maintain by far, but the newer Chev’s have had their share of problems too, all tied to the stupid emission system. In fact, over the life of the trucks, our newer trucks have each cost us more to own, repair, and maintain by a large margin than the 2, ‘07 LBZ’s. We’ve owned them all since new. We keep the 07’s because they’re reliable, they just rotate as “floater trucks” for when a new truck goes down.

If you can find the older diesels they’re still worth the coin, but the new ones aren’t worth the risk and maintenance costs and headaches.

Unless it’s a ram, then it doesn’t matter if it’s old or new, they’re not worth the investment. Friends don’t let friends drive a ram. Let’s poke that bear

 

[displacedtexan]

Modern gas engines are also complex and expensive to repair.

I drive diesels because I like them.

Sometimes I need the capability, and it doesn't bother me as a commuter.

 

[summs]

As most people in this forum, I own a 5.9 cummins. It gets 18mpg on my work commute, and when going central NJ to Down East ME was 1 tank, my dads v6 chevy would have to stop half way. A diesel is overkill for what I tow, but I always wanted one and was very close to moving a camper around a lot, but that job fell through. I looked to downgrade to an f150, a few buddies have them and Im getting similar if not better mpg as a 2.7L/3.5L. Why would I trade?

As far as maintenance, nothing is cheap anymore, back when it was 350 small blocks vs a diesel, sure. My diesel gets a $14 fuel filter, $60 3 gallons full syn oil, and $14 oil filter every 10k miles. Most times, gas and diesel are within $0.20, I can afford the $3 difference in a fuel up, it hurt when it was $2.25 difference, so I just took the car instead. Parts seem to cost 25% more, $200 for all 4 balljoints and I just paid $80 for a water pump? Doesn't sound so bad to me. Injectors was a big one, cost $3000, but that was everything, motorcraft injectors are $200 each or $1600, I paid $2100 for just the injectors, again more expensive, but at $500 it's far fetched or a common replacement item.

Modern diesels scare me, I would never buy one with emissions, loads of power but shitty engineering. Hauling over 10k lbs daily, then worth the trade off, 5k pounds is a almost non noticeable load, it's very impressive. I would take a f150 v8 any day over the little hair drier turbos with cam phaser clicking.

 

[Brooks]

One is a grocery getter that will pull things around town…gas …the other is a work truck that will pull a loaded trailers cross country, in a head wind, up big grades.

 

[Dexter Grayson]

Gas 8=>

Diesel 8=====>

I have a 2015 6.7 F250 deleted. I agree with most, modern diesels are choked down by emissions and not worth the squeeze.

Here lately I’ve pushed around the idea of switching back to a half ton. I don’t tow anymore and the ride is fairly rough in my super duty.

So if anyone looking for a 2015 6.7 F250 hit me up.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

I'm thinking about this now in terms of an F250 "Overlanding" type rig. Bigger Tires, Lift, Bumpers, pop up or hard side camper on the back, lots of gear, but generally towing lower loads that's fine for gas. No huge campers or boats.

Diesel makes almost no sense whatsoever in that case (Up front cost, fuel cost, ownership cost, reliability) except the biggest thing that gets me is range. My gas option in the F250 is a HOG of a big block that gets horrible mileage that really impacts my range between fill ups. I've been on hunting trips and in the backcountry where that's a real issue. I think I'd basically need to get a 50 gallon tank installed (and won't do any of the aux. bed options) or there are scenarios where I'd be filling up the bed with Jerry Jugs.

As much as I "Want" a diesel and complain about gasser mileage/range, I'll probably end up with gas and finding that aftermarket tank, and keeping my Grand Cherokee for all my daily driving.

Transerflow now makes a 58 gallon replacement tank for the 7.3 gas..this was fill up after a 5 hr drive..worth every penny. This was my only issue with the gas 250s for my use.

 

[cuerro viejo]

50gal tank in a diesel is easy, good luck getting a big gasoline tank.

end of the day their is no substitute for diesel in the high torque low RPM range. No turbo gas will ever last as long as a diesel under load.

down side is regular maintenance cost, emission issues, fuel cost and weight when not pulling

 

[cuerro viejo]

Transerflow now makes a 58 gallon replacement tank for the 7.3 gas..this was fill up after a 5 hr drive..worth every penny. This was my only issue with the gas 250s for my use.
View attachment 534367

seriously, now thats a hell of a deal. i stand corrected on my earlier post

 

[Wrench]

My work truck/s are new fords. The aluminum body is so easy to dent its silly. Coworker closed the door with a fingertip and dented the truck. The door lock has always been fords weakness and when you look at how fast you can pop the lock with a crescent wrench it's obvious it's not getting better.

 

[Choupique]

I dont think overrated is the right word. Over-purchased more like. Financially they don't make much sense at all for most people. Fleets are running gas engines in their 3/4 ton size stuff because the diesel just isn't necessary and the costs are ridiculous. The gas engines are fantastic these days. It's no feat to get 250k miles out of one working it hard. If you live your life hooked up to heavy stuff the diesel will probably pay off, but one injector failure out of warranty will wipe out whatever tiny bit of fuel savings you've accumulated. You can put a whole engine in a gas truck for what a set of injectors in a piwerstroke will cost you.

In my opinion for the average dude it boils down to the cost/ benefit analysis of how much $ is it worth to you to be able to drag a 5th wheel through a pass at 75mph passing up the gasser pulling his 5th wheel.

Now if we're going to talk small engines, diesel makes tremendous good sense.

 

[Choupique]

seriously, now thats a hell of a deal. i stand corrected on my earlier post

The 4 door long bed ford trucks have a 48 gallon tank standard from the factory, gas and diesel. One of the best things about them.

I've got a 100 gallon tank in the bed of my cummins truck, so I don't worry about range at all anymore. That's a whole lot of weight and space in the bed though. I'd have much preferred to just have a 50 gallon factory tank like Ford does. I believe the new body style dodge offers a 50 gallon tank as an option on the diesels now.

 

[Bluefish]

diesel used to make a lot of sense. Have owned 5 tdi’s and a ford e-350 with a 7.3. All got great milage and had good mid range torque. Unfortunately the current emission controls have choked the life out of diesels. The dpf reduces efficiency by a few mpg and raises engine temps. The def adds expense and complexity. If I lived in a location where I could remove the dpf and def systems and needed to tow, I would have a diesel. If I was in a location where it had to stay stock, I would go with a gas engine and preferably not a small turbo.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

The 4 door long bed ford trucks have a 48 gallon tank standard from the factory, gas and diesel. One of the best things about them.

Correct but the 6.9' beds only come with a 34 gallon...I wanted the shorter bed for off road and a bigger tank.

 

[CMS829]

Put 300K on my 2004 cummins. Just sold it to get something newer. Bought a 2018 ram with the 6.7. I tow heavy equipment and dump trailers. As a daily driver a diesel no longer makes sense. But if you need it, you need it.

 

[FLATHEAD]

Back in the day, yes.
But now they're so saddled with regulatory stuff
it just makes them too complicated.
I had one but couldnt justify it anymore.
Expensive to operate, and I dont tow heavy stuff for long distances.
Just didnt make sense.

 

[Skerhunter]

If you your going to pull an actual load a decent distance, diesel is better. If you are just making local trips with heavier loads or pulling your camper across the state, gas is fine (even a half ton for most ppl). We have used both. Gas trucks have never stranded us. Been stranded by multiple diesels of every make and model (even the “perfect” 5.9’s and 7.3’s).

 

[pirogue]

I recently traded in for my 3rd new Duramax.
Never considered anything else.

 

[Trr15]

Switched over to a Cummins 8 years ago and will never go back to gas. Diesels are more expensive to maintain. Oil and fuel filter changes are about $250 every 12k miles or so. They also chew up tires quicker than a gasser due to the added weight. I still recommend getting a diesel. Full delete, tune and enjoy.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Seeing as how many have them for daily driving or towing a small boat that don’t need them i’ll say yes, overrated.