AR = Everything

[43.6N]

How are your eyes?
Lpvo is nice, don’t get me wrong.
But don’t rule out an acog as a durable, simplified, do everything optic. 3.5x or 4x.

 

[ARK_Ginger]

I do not like, or choose to use flown through cans. If a gun is gassed properly they are not needed, and they are loud. All of the US cans to date have had no issues in function on over gassed 10.5” AR’s.

@Formidilosus maybe drifting the thread a bit, but what would be your can recommendation on a 6 ARC gas gun? Would you recommend the Reaper for a setup where a OTB isn't feasible?

 

[justinspicher]

How are your eyes?
Lpvo is nice, don’t get me wrong.
But don’t rule out an acog as a durable, simplified, do everything optic. 3.5x or 4x.

For the cost of an ACOG, you can get an LVPO.

You couldn’t give me an ACOG, it’s one of the worst optics I’ve ever had to use.

 

[WoolOverAll]

You couldn’t give me an ACOG, it’s one of the worst optics I’ve ever had to use.

I've been hunting with a 4x ACOG (TA31RCO) with an RMR for a while. It fits my needs pretty well and is a good option if you don't mind the eye relief.

 

[justinspicher]

I was given one for work in the military, I couldn’t make it work no matter how hard I tried. I think my issue was due to having to wear a helmet, as a civilian I could probably make it work, but I’d rather have an LVPO.

 

[dårlig jeger]

I was given one for work in the military, I couldn’t make it work no matter how hard I tried. I think my issue was due to having to wear a helmet, as a civilian I could probably make it work, but I’d rather have an LVPO.

I have the complete opposite opinion. I loved my ACOG.

I have yet to use an lpvo that's good at anything. They all have parallax issues at one end or the other. Maybe I'm just dumb and acog was simple, but I found it way, way easier to use.

 

[justinspicher]

I have the complete opposite opinion. I loved my ACOG.

I have yet to use an lpvo that's good at anything. They all have parallax issues at one end or the other. Maybe I'm just dumb and acog was simple, but I found it way, way easier to use.

I know several folks that really dig the ACOG, to each their own. I am just not a fan of a fixed 4x scope, and trying to make it do everything I need it to do.

I spend all of my time shooting with an LVPO, so I don’t have an issue shooting with it. I’d probably be able to do the same with an ACOG, but I am just not willing to invest that time into something I just don’t care for.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus maybe drifting the thread a bit, but what would be your can recommendation on a 6 ARC gas gun? Would you recommend the Reaper for a setup where a OTB isn't feasible?

There’s a bunch of suitable gas gun cans. If you don’t need to full-auto it, yes I would choose a lighter printed Ti hunting can. The Realer works well on everything I have put it on.

 

[McCrapper]

Anybody tried Sionics?

I think I’m going to buy one of there 12.5 SBRs, they seem to have a quiet faithful following. Main uses are similar to the OPs, 0-500 yards, suppressed full time, train and protect the family with.

Is the NX8s the only recommended 1-6, 1-8s?


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[Pilsner]

Springfield SAINT Victor V2 5.56mm 11.5

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I put together something pretty similar to this with a geissele upper a year or two ago. It's been pretty handy for me but I don't have any experience with it on people or bears.

For what it is worth I have treated a ton of 5.56 wounds while on active duty as a combat medic and have solved a few black bear problems with 75 grain ELD-M's in 5.56/.223 all without issue. For 5.56 I would avoid the 55 grain and 62 grain offerings and stick with the 70+ grainers for terminal performance. TMK and ELD-M's > everything else.

 

[Pilsner]

I agree.....the OP mentioned Bear, Elk, Deer, etc. .556 is weak sauce for these larger animals IMO. My instincts tell me 6.5 Grendel minimum or even the 6.8 spc.

So exactly how many Bear, Elk, and Deer have you taken with a 5.56 to validate that opinion?
I won't inquire about how many etc's that you have taken with it to be polite.

 

[Pilsner]

I was given one for work in the military, I couldn’t make it work no matter how hard I tried. I think my issue was due to having to wear a helmet, as a civilian I could probably make it work, but I’d rather have an LVPO.

The ACOG was a GREAT solution to a problem circa 2005-ish. An LPVO that can go to 8x or 10x and still be a viable 1x red dot type optic is a much better choice as a general duty rifle optic.

 

[ElPollo]

This thread has me considering rebuilding the Franken-AR I have in the safe with a 11.5” Criterion Core barrel. Never had an AR that was consistently better than a 3 MOA gun. If I could get one to shoot reasonably accurately, I would hunt more with it. The SPECWAR thing is interesting, but I’m unlikely to use anything more than a white light on the rail.

 

[Bluefish]

I disagree, as a 300 blkout owner its a speciality cartridge. Most of my experience has been with subs, but its been difficult to find an accurate & lethal load for varmit sized targets beyond 100 yards. 10 yards matter alot with that shell. Id like to see you go 223, 6.5g, heck even 7.62x39 before id go 300blk, and I hate 7.62x39 in ar's. An sks made a dandy beater truck gun honestly.

I think that the issue is subs are not great for ranges beyond 100 yards due to trajectory. All subs have similar trajectories, to get a 4” point blank at 100 yards, you have to zero at about 80. Then dial or hold beyond. They are still lethal way out as velocity drops much slower than sonic rounds. I figure my 45-70 with subs is lethal out to 800 yards, but drop is huge as is time of flight. I tried subs for thermal varmit hunting once. Drop was too big of an issue.

 

[justinspicher]

Whatever you have/build, hopefully it matches your environment, and you take the time to invest in training with it. At the end of the day it’s a personal decision.

 

[upslopeP]

So I have been musing an AR for some time. In reading (and asking AI) it keeps pushing a piston system for suppressed. Like PWS MK116

Any thoughts or comments? Not interested in home defense. Was thinking more target practice and possible recreational varmints (in and out of a truck).

 

[77TMK]

So I have been musing an AR for some time. In reading (and asking AI) it keeps pushing a piston system for suppressed. Like PWS MK116

Any thoughts or comments? Not interested in home defense. Was thinking more target practice and possible recreational varmints (in and out of a truck).

Piston isn’t necessary. Proper ones work well (H&K), but so do proper DI guns.

Pistons got popular as addons or conversions to answer for vendors selling barrels with oversized gas ports meant to run Tula 223 at altitude with no cleaning.

 

[RockAndSage]

So I have been musing an AR for some time. In reading (and asking AI) it keeps pushing a piston system for suppressed. Like PWS MK116

Any thoughts or comments? Not interested in home defense. Was thinking more target practice and possible recreational varmints (in and out of a truck).

It comes down to a balance of your individual priorities for the gun.

Generally speaking, piston ARs will run a lot longer on one application of lube. The question is whether or not that matters, or to what extent it matters. They apply far less heat to the BCG and the lube around the BCG, along with a lot less friction contaminant getting barfed out of the gas tube and onto the lube and friction surfaces. Most of them are also easier to tune for adverse environments, when you need more energy applied to the moving parts to keep them running reliably - arctic environments, mud, sand, etc. Overall, piston ARs tend to stay a lot cleaner, the lube lasts longer, and they're easier to tune their cycling energy with in the field, to a degree, depending on design. It's what I'd recommend to a guy who is very maintenance averse.

The cons of piston guns are that, excepting the best quality builds (LMT, HK, etc), they don't seem to last as long as DI guns. I don't have as much experience with the newest mid-tier piston guns, but my understanding is they've gotten a lot better on this issue. Additionally, there's more moving mass, so they're harder to tune for a really smooth recoil impulse. Finally, they seem to be a bit harder to accurize competently.

DI guns are easier to accurize, they're lighter, there's better parts commonality, and generally they're notably cheaper.

When you add a suppressor, different designs have more or less backpressure, with the bore being pressurized still while the action is opening up. This forces the BCG back at much higher velocities, and it also blasts a lot of heated fouling and hot gas across the lube and friction surfaces. The biggest difference between DI and piston on this issue is ease of tuning the gas system. Piston guns usually have a plug you can rotate at the gas block, right in the field. This can allow you to decrease the amount of gas applied to the piston, and tune the cycling to a less violent impulse.

Overall though, for the vast majority of situations, any advantages or disadvantages to either style are pretty marginal. Each pro or con can be enhanced or diminished in either design if someone knows what they're doing.

That said, the best piston guns are pretty nice.

 

[upslopeP]

I am used to cleaning my 22 after every outing (maybe not complete disassembly but still) - I am assuming CF is less maintenance but I am not concerned about the need to cycle dirty. I also don't expect to rapid fire a lot - I like even shot to have a lined up target.

I also feel like it's such a cheap and common round that I would have less hesitation shooting 100 rnds at the range vs the 308 (I have yet to fire). My range membership should start March 1. The 223 would allow me to better practice aiming at distances more relatable to the 308.

The piston really comes down to probably always firing suppressed. And I would prefer to buy 1 gun and keep it for 10+ years. I am not really in a rush to get one but I always figured I would eventually. At this point I am not even sure what I should be looking at/for in specs. I would feel comfortable assembling from parts - apart from a force fit/heater barrel.

Most of the reviews on things I have looked seem to be like 'there are some good points and drawbacks but you should get one of these to add to your collection' - Any advice or input on where to start?

 

[Formidilosus]

So I have been musing an AR for some time. In reading (and asking AI) it keeps pushing a piston system for suppressed. Like PWS MK116

Don’t use AI. All it’s doing is collating a bunch of bad information.

Any thoughts or comments? Not interested in home defense. Was thinking more target practice and possible recreational varmints (in and out of a truck).

Pistons are not more reliable or less finicky, nor do they have a broader range of function with environments, ammo, or conditions. They are worse across the board than proper DI guns in all of that. Maybe in 2004 and HK416 had an advantage, not in 2026.

I have extremely heavy use with HK, LMT, and SWORD piston guns (all the good ones), as well as most of the others- they do not beat proper DI guns in almost anything.