Anyone paying attention to Michigan?

[Hickory1991]

My family usually shoot a couple does for the freezer every year. We love the venison and process our own meat. Can’t believe the last few years the DNR were letting people buy 10 antlerless tags. Can phantom needing 10 deer. Guess they thought we have too many which we do in some areas, just not as many on public land. I live near I-69 in Lapeer County and am amazed by how many roadkill deer I see. Problem is it’s all private land with no access. Same problem in Oakland County. No hunting in most of it. You want big bucks go to my brother in laws house in Royal Oak. Has a couple monsters in his backyard every year. Nice to look at but no hunting.

 

[cj13]

Im based in zone 3 so my experience is there is a huge overpopulation of does, limited places to hunt, and mostly all immature bucks (2.5 or younger). The private has a higher concentration of does but there is still a lot of does on the public near me. We also see a lot of crop permit deer getting shot and buried in our area in the summer months. A combo tag with one buck license and one doe license should help both quality and population in my area.

I also understand my experience is different than those in the northern lower or UP but I dont see how a combo tag with one antlerless and one buck tag hurts any one region. It provides incentive to shoot more does in overpopulated areas like the southern lower. In the UP there is only antleress harvest in early archery or late archery (with the combo tag), I can't imagine doe harvest will increase much if any at all with this rule change. There will however be fewer bucks harvested in the UP so I would expect a slight increase in total population if anything.

 

[BR549]

Meaningful change would be something on the order of no bucks before November 15 to let the big boys do the breeding.
Culling the big ones (AKA APR) and letting the scrawny genetics to be passed on doesn't sound like a long term plan for success.

 

[MichiganMan25]

I also understand my experience is different than those in the northern lower or UP but I dont see how a combo tag with one antlerless and one buck tag hurts any one region. It provides incentive to shoot more does in overpopulated areas like the southern lower. In the UP there is only antleress harvest in early archery or late archery (with the combo tag), I can't imagine doe harvest will increase much if any at all with this rule change.

I'm in the northern lower. My county used to have 100 public land antlerless tags. I had to apply to get one. My county is about 50% public land for reference. Giving everyone 10 doe tags or 1 is a bad idea. The herd can handle 2 buck tags, Michigan used to be a 4 buck state. There are enough bucks to kill. The local population has really taken a hit since giving out so many doe tags.
It's only 4%-7% of hunters that actually fill both buck tags. But, that second buck tag adds days to the season that hunters can at least be out and enjoy hunting.

 

[craigrh13]

I'm in the northern lower. My county used to have 100 public land antlerless tags. I had to apply to get one. My county is about 50% public land for reference. Giving everyone 10 doe tags or 1 is a bad idea. The herd can handle 2 buck tags, Michigan used to be a 4 buck state. There are enough bucks to kill. The local population has really taken a hit since giving out so many doe tags.
It's only 4%-7% of hunters that actually fill both buck tags. But, that second buck tag adds days to the season that hunters can at least be out and enjoy hunting.

Nice that you mention that. Ohio hunters under OBR spend more time in the woods on average than the average Michigan hunter. Weird right?

 

[MichiganMan25]

Nice that you mention that. Ohio hunters under OBR spend more time in the woods on average than the average Michigan hunter. Weird right?

According to what? I never got that survey.

 

[craigrh13]

According to what? I never got that survey.

Of course you didn't. The average hunter in Michigan spends 12 days bow hunting and 6 days gun hunting. That's been consistent for some time now.

 

[Wiscgunner]

In my experience, deer numbers are way down in Arenac County compared to the 80s/90s for total head count. Keep in mind in those days there was no limit to how much excess feed we could put out. Between baiting during season and feeding through the winder we maintained too many deer for the land to naturally support. The area herd was also decimated (left for better habitat) when the Gypsy Moths destroyed the acorn crops for so many years. Now that baiting is out, I would wager this is helping to stabilize the deer numbers to what the habitat can actually support. The acorn crop is out of control as if the deer are not interested. Not enough deer to eat them all perhaps.

With that said, since the group of land owners where I hunt have all adopted a 6pt minimum, one buck policy (unless deformed) for almost 10 years now we have seen a steady increase in both number of bucks taken, point count and mass. This suggests to me the herd in the area is increasing in percentage of bucks and age. Does are encouraged to be taken and we always take some for camp meat but many hunters are still against shooting a doe even when it helps the herd per DNR and Forester recommendations (too much browsing, no new growth).

Now Sanilac County where my parents are is excessive. My mom can't keep the damn things out of her gardens. Thinking food plots of my mother's hostas would work great in front of a deer stand

 

[SuperSeal110]

I use to hunt in Gladwin Co, on my grandpa's property with him, my uncle and one of my uncle friend's on a small, 20 acre parcel. They would shoot any legal buck during gun season and be PROUD. I hunted state land in Calhoun in '12 on the gun opener with my grandpa when he sold his land in '11. I NEVER heard soooo many gun shots in my life! I only saw does during mid day and they were panting like dogs from getting shot at every direction! They were literally black from crossing the mucky creeks. While I was in stand, I told myself the following year I'd be buying my own property. I've lost a lot of permission from ppl selling their properties over the years.

When you have a ton of small parcels with multiple hunters, it doesn't take much to effect the deer heard during gun season, imo. Like I mentioned in an early post, we have to many hunter per square mile, IMO.

Southern Michigan is much different. There's much more acreage that ppl own and it's very limited on public land. I was fortunate enough to buy my first house back in '13 with 18 acres. EHD basically killed EVERYTHING in '12 before I bought my house. From '13-'18 it was very rough for hunting. In that time, I only killed (1) 4pt and a 1 doe for meat. Since '20 is been phenomenal, but I'm also very picky on what bucks I kill, now. In '25 I killed a 130's and 160's. I have neighbors around me that kill whatever bucks they see with no size. I'm normally tagged out during bow. I shoot my fair share of does during gun season to help my gf and few friends out for meat.

Branch, Calhoun and Jackson is littered with deer. Hell, this morning when I was going into work, I had to stop twice to let deer cross the road. It ain't uncommon to see 20-40 does in my neighbors fields.

1 buck tag ain't going help without APR on small parcels, but this is just my opinion from my hunting experience, YMMV.

 

[craigrh13]

I use to hunt in Gladwin Co, on my grandpa's property with him, my uncle and one of my uncle friend's on a small, 20 acre parcel. They would shoot any legal buck during gun season and be PROUD. I hunted state land in Calhoun in '12 on the gun opener with my grandpa when he sold his land in '11. I NEVER heard soooo many gun shots in my life! I only saw does during mid day and they were panting like dogs from getting shot at every direction! They were literally black from crossing the mucky creeks. While I was in stand, I told myself the following year I'd be buying my own property. I've lost a lot of permission from ppl selling their properties over the years.

When you have a ton of small parcels with multiple hunters, it doesn't take much to effect the deer heard during gun season, imo. Like I mentioned in an early post, we have to many hunter per square mile, IMO.

Southern Michigan is much different. There's much more acreage that ppl own and it's very limited on public land. I was fortunate enough to buy my first house back in '13 with 18 acres. EHD basically killed EVERYTHING in '12 before I bought my house. From '13-'18 it was very rough for hunting. In that time, I only killed (1) 4pt and a 1 doe for meat. Since '20 is been phenomenal, but I'm also very picky on what bucks I kill, now. In '25 I killed a 130's and 160's. I have neighbors around me that kill whatever bucks they see with no size. I'm normally tagged out during bow. I shoot my fair share of does during gun season to help my gf and few friends out for meat.

Branch, Calhoun and Jackson is littered with deer. Hell, this morning when I was going into work, I had to stop twice to let deer cross the road. It ain't uncommon to see 20-40 does in my neighbors fields.

1 buck tag ain't going help without APR on small parcels, but this is just my opinion from my hunting experience, YMMV.

You should have seen the deer population down here in the late 90's early 2000's. It was astronomical. It's down a lot since then but still high. We got hit with EHD last year in Eastern Jackson county. It took out a lot of deer and all of our older bucks.

Michigan is second only to Wisconsin in hunters per sq mile.

Zone 3 will be one buck with 4 point APR. zones 1 and 2 will be one buck with a 3 point apr.

 

[Coveyleader]

"Change the 15 day November 15-30th gun season we have had since 1968 to 11/15-11/24 in the UP."

They could change that season date to a 7 day season. Its pretty rough hunting up there after the first week.

It would be a good move to go one deer in the UP. Wolves, recent winterkill, etc not doing the deer any favors. The real problem up there is very few respect bag limits.

 

[Steve O]

First time I’ve seen any of the proposals in writing.

 

[Netherman]

Nice that you mention that. Ohio hunters under OBR spend more time in the woods on average than the average Michigan hunter. Weird right?

This is a great example showing how "facts" aren't as black and white as they are made out to be. You are using days in the woods to say there won't be a loss in hunting days(opportunity). Could you tell me that the difference between OH and MI isn't due to the greater number of "fair weather" hunters in MI? We have a strong "camp" tradition and likely more hunters who only hunt the first week/weekend of rifle season, thus shifting the numbers down. Is this theory true? It's certainly a possibility.

I don't think you can argue that 1 buck tag provides more opportunity than 2 buck tags. I'm still looking for the data or argument on how this "helps the herd" statewide. Anecdotally, I could see how OBR coupled with the new "doe with a bow" could help balance the (heavily doe skewed) UP deer herd along the superior shoreline. But I don't see the need to reduce hunter opportunity in SE MI in the name of "herd health".

 

[Coveyleader]

That 7 day closure prior to rifle would be devastating for archery.

 

[Mcfish]

That 7 day closure prior to rifle would be devastating for archery.

It's the only proposal I'm against.

I hunt western Michigan and nw lower Michigan. APR in the nw has made for a much more enjoyable hunt. I see more rut activity (multiple bucks chasing a single doe type action) and a better age class of bucks. And needing multiple weapons to hunt stinks. Somehow the populated areas of rifle zone don't have any more problems than the straight wall zone.

 

[Weldor]

Age has to do with it because if you weren’t hunting 1980-2005 you don’t know how good it was. I have always hunted in Michigan north of US-10 all the way to Wisconsin or Canada. I also hunt one of the draw hunts in Zone 3 and it is also pathetic compared to what it used to be.

Private land SLP hunters should not be making rules for the poor souls that have to hunt public. It’s a different world.

I’ve hunted whitetail in Ohio, Indiana, Wisconsin, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Wyoming, Montana, Alberta, and Saskatchewan…Michigan deer are not managed properly, the biologists have no say nor the tools they need. It is all politics and revenue. Maximize license sales; the only reason there is any interest from the government is license sales are in the dumper.

I remember the traffic jams from the Ohio border to the bridge in the 70's. Rifle season was ok but not great back then. 1 buck only and very few doe tags.Missed the boom of the 80 through 2000's. Moved west in 79.

 

[SirChooCH]

I think everyone who cares in this group should be against the new proposed "quiet zone" regulations that remove 2 weeks of bowhunting in November. Sure move the dates around to match the new firearm dates. But leave them as the current regulations for quiet period which allows bowhunting, small game, and watefowl during that time. Just not deer rifles.

Also they had the DNR speak a few months ago at the NRC meeting about the rifle line removal and they looked at Indiana recently changing to it with no safety issues. Wisconsin is same way statewide any rifle without issues and just as many hunters as MI. And coyote hunters use a lot of various rifles without issue. Figures I bought a 12 ga the year before straightwall became a thing and then last year finally caved to get a straightwall rifle and they open it up to any rifle in my safe already...

 

[Mcfish]

Figures I bought a 12 ga the year before straightwall became a thing and then last year finally caved to get a straightwall rifle and they open it up to any rifle in my safe already...

I hear ya... My 450 will be for sale hopefully. I won't miss it.

 

[Agross]

Y is that

 

[glock233]

Did straight wall get removed?