anyone pay attention to their resting heart rate?

[mtbraun]

My takeaway is this: Life longevity is a crap shoot. The benefit of exercise isn't so much about extending life, but ensuring whatever years we have are lived robustly. Hopefully, a long, rich life full of vitality and good health, living in a relatively flat steady state belying our advancing years, a quick decline and a good death.

This, as opposed to the model too often given for us aging folks - the ineluctably long, slow, torturous decline into years of poorer and poorer health, a miserable arc unto death. Might be the same total years, but the former is the better model.

Think Peter Attia's marginal decade. How do you want to live your last years?

 

[clowncar]

Not sure what youre trying to say but caffeine is liquid stress it is a poison the body that produces cortisol which puts your body on high alert. It’s in no way good for you.

ok then how do you argue with the million + ppl that have been studied since the 1970s in caffeine affects on human bodies both long and short term? It, research, is out on [ PUBMED.COM]; conducted by professional med ical researchers, who've concluded that consuming 30 mg or 180 mg only inside a 24 hr day has proven healthier than not ever drinking those 2 specific amounts. Is this more clear?

 

[Leverwalker]

Think Peter Attia's marginal decade. How do you want to live your last years?

Fantastic, thank you. I am ignorant of his work but in my quick search based on your post, really looking forward to diving in. Much appreciated.

Edit: Just a quick read of his marginal decade page, the end. Man, sleep. I've come such a long, long way, but this one is a tough one for me. Longstanding insomniac, better understood once PTSD was diagnosed about 5 years ago - explained years of 2-3 hours nightly sleep w/ nightly, violent nightmares and my acting them out physically, not a great thing when I've a history as a martial artist. Progress there, too, but last night for instance, 3 1/2 hours, everything bedside busted when I cleared them in a thrashing-out.

Add in, constant, total body pain and the centrality of sleep to everything - bad sleep punching up the central neuro pain, which in turns affects sleep, and the cycle spins out of control - well, thanks, because in my effort to come back to hard training and ignoring the pain, lousy sleep has once again fallen to a low priority for me as a kind of given, in spite of meds to help with both the intensity of the nightmares, and my acting out physically. I need to do my part better, including a devotion to sleep hygiene.

Anyway not trying to disgorge a personal story or take a side-note to the thread. Just a note in case anyone else might get some benefit, my total agreement on how critical good sleep is to just about everything else, so fellow insomniacs, I feel for you. And another thanks for pointing this physician out.

 

[IBen]

ok then how do you argue with the million + ppl that have been studied since the 1970s in caffeine affects on human bodies both long and short term? It, research, is out on [ PUBMED.COM]; conducted by professional med ical researchers, who've concluded that consuming 30 mg or 180 mg only inside a 24 hr day has proven healthier than not ever drinking those 2 specific amounts. Is this more clear?

Please read a book called “caffeine blues” if you think coffee is in any way a “health food”
Coffee has not been proven to be “healthy” (which is not even a scientific term, therefore would never be referenced in a study)
caffeine is literally a pesticide that plants produce to kill insects and animals that eat it’s seed or leaf.

 

[Marbles]

I think I misunderstood you, assuming your point of view was a negative correlation between exercise and heart health/longevity. Due to that assumed misunderstanding, I asked for the data.

I've read the posted article some time ago, and agree its a good primer.

Sorry to have lacked clarity.

My belief is that, absent specific health conditions; given proper recovery, adequate nutrition, and adequate recovery, more exercise is better. I think concerns about wearing ones body out (again, given proper training patterns) are not well supported.

I call it a belief because I lack definitive data, I can make a strong argument to support it though. Of course I could also be engaging in motivated reasoning to justify a lack of moderation.

I think it is important to ask for data, even if we like the conclusion, usually particularly if we like the conclusion. The experts I enjoy working with all cite data in conversations.

 

[307]

Please read a book called “caffeine blues” if you think coffee is in any way a “health food”
Coffee has not been proven to be “healthy” (which is not even a scientific term, therefore would never be referenced in a study)
caffeine is literally a pesticide that plants produce to kill insects and animals that eat it’s seed or leaf.

Protective of dementia/Alzheimer's:

Caffeine Intake and Dementia: Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis - IOS Press

A recent meta-analysis of 4 studies published up to January 2004 suggests a negative association between coffee consumption and Alzheimer's disease, despite important heterogeneity in methods and results. Several epidemiological studies on this issue

content.iospress.com

Decreased risk of depression:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0004867415603131

Improves exercise performance:

Effects of Caffeine Ingestion on Exercise Testing: A Meta-Analysis

This study used the meta-analytic approach to examine the effects of caffeine ingestion on exercise testing. Forty double-blind studies with 76 effect sizes (ES) met the inclusion criteria. The type of exercise test was classified as endurance, graded, or short-term. In comparison with placebo...

journals.humankinetics.com

Reduces all cause mortality:

A meta-analysis of prospective studies of coffee consumption and mortality for all causes, cancers and cardiovascular diseases - European Journal of Epidemiology

Several prospective studies considered the relation between coffee consumption and mortality. Most studies, however, were underpowered to detect an association, since they included relatively few deaths. To obtain quantitative overall estimates, we combined all published data from prospective...

link.springer.com

I don't know about you, but that's a pretty powerful trend towards coffee being pretty damned healthy.

Pass me the "pesticide"... haha

 

[IBen]

Protective of dementia/Alzheimer's:

Caffeine Intake and Dementia: Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis - IOS Press

A recent meta-analysis of 4 studies published up to January 2004 suggests a negative association between coffee consumption and Alzheimer's disease, despite important heterogeneity in methods and results. Several epidemiological studies on this issue

content.iospress.com

Decreased risk of depression:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0004867415603131

Improves exercise performance:

Effects of Caffeine Ingestion on Exercise Testing: A Meta-Analysis

This study used the meta-analytic approach to examine the effects of caffeine ingestion on exercise testing. Forty double-blind studies with 76 effect sizes (ES) met the inclusion criteria. The type of exercise test was classified as endurance, graded, or short-term. In comparison with placebo...

journals.humankinetics.com

Reduces all cause mortality:

A meta-analysis of prospective studies of coffee consumption and mortality for all causes, cancers and cardiovascular diseases - European Journal of Epidemiology

Several prospective studies considered the relation between coffee consumption and mortality. Most studies, however, were underpowered to detect an association, since they included relatively few deaths. To obtain quantitative overall estimates, we combined all published data from prospective...

link.springer.com

I don't know about you, but that's a pretty powerful trend towards coffee being pretty damned healthy.

Pass me the "pesticide"... haha

its a drink that produces a stress hormone in the body. It is a plant produced pesticide that kills insects. All of these studies are funded by soda and energy drink companies to keep caffeine in a positive light in the public eye because adding it to products makes them addicting. I drink caffeine everyday in the form of one cup of coffee because tbh my life isn't that stressful but i have taken long multi month breaks and I promise you will agree with me on the supposed health benefits if you do the same. Dm me your address and I’ll send you the book

 

[Robobiss]

Mine is in the low 50’s. Its upper 40’s when I’m first waking up and low 40’s while I’m asleep.

I do a lot of zone 2 cardio, and a lot of higher intensity stuff as well. When I was younger (20 or so) getting drunk every day and acting like an idiot it was in the 70’s and even the 80’s. I’ve definitely made some improvement over the last few years.

 

[IBen]

just skip caffeine for a day see how you feel. Thats called withdrawal from dependency on a drug

 

[307]

its a drink that produces a stress hormone in the body. It is a plant produced pesticide that kills insects. All of these studies are funded by soda and energy drink companies to keep caffeine in a positive light in the public eye because adding it to products makes them addicting. I drink caffeine everyday in the form of one cup of coffee because tbh my life isn't that stressful but i have taken long multi month breaks and I promise you will agree with me on the supposed health benefits if you do the same. Dm me your address and I’ll send you the book

So a meta analysis from many other studies are all bought and paid for by "Big Caffeine". Got it...

There is simply no reason to have a legitimate discussion anymore when absolutely every supportable position (multiple meta analysis!!!!!!) can be dismissed by conspiracy or simply labeling it "Fake News".

I really don't want some sensationalist story based on pseudo science and half truths twisted into a commercially viable "book".

 

[IBen]

So a meta analysis from many other studies, university led, all bought and paid for by "Big Caffeine". Got it...

There is simply no reason to have a legitimate discussion anymore when absolutely every supportable position (multiple meta analysis!!!!!!) can be dismissed by conspiracy or simply labeling it "Fake News".

I really don't want some sensationalist story based on pseudo science and half truths twisted into a commercially viable "book".

Typical response from someone addicted to a drug. Please skip your morning coffee tomorrow and see how you function. You rejecting the book is just the same as saying me saying “fake news” lol. My offer still stands but at the end of the day I dont care about your health but for anyone that doesnt have perfect health in any area and hasnt tried cutting caffeine try that first.

 

[IBen]

“Book” damn dude you are so addicted to caffeine you are threatened this bad.

 

[307]

Typical response from someone addicted to a drug. Please skip your morning coffee tomorrow and see how you function. You rejecting the book is just the same as saying me saying “fake news” lol. My offer still stands but at the end of the day I dont care about your health but for anyone that doesnt have perfect health in any area and hasnt tried cutting caffeine try that first.

No, a collection of meta analysis is not the same as some b.s. book that duped you into believing nonsense. I'm sorry you were so gullible. A rudimentary education or community college course on the scientific method would probably have saved you from such embarrassment.

 

[IBen]

No, a collection of meta analysis is not the same as some b.s. book that duped you into believing nonsense. I'm sorry you were so gullible. A rudimentary education or community college course on the scientific method would probably have saved you from such embarrassment.

What do think the references in the book are of ? Studies maybe
Except its hundreds of studies
Caffeine increases cortisol, blood pressure, and disrupts circadian rhythm. Go look up the health benefits of those things.
I think your blood pressure is a little high right now. I would avoid caffeine for the next 4-6 hours

 

[307]

What do think the references in the book are of ? Studies maybe
Except its hundreds of studies
Caffeine increases cortisol, blood pressure, and disrupts circadian rhythm. Go look up the health benefits of those things.
I think your blood pressure is a little high right now. I would avoid caffeine for the next 4-6 hours

I spend all day diagnosing and educating people on health and fitness for which they pay me quite well. Due to the fact that this is not a reasonable debate/discussion nor are you paying me for it, I'm out.

Good luck with your book.

 

[IBen]

I spend all day diagnosing and educating people on health and fitness for which they pay me quite well.

Good luck with your book.

Good luck on your caffeine free day tomorrow. Let me know how it goes

 

[Hnthrdr]

If I recall correctly Louis zamperini the wwII pow hero and us track star had such a low resting heart rate they turned him down when he tried to enlist for Bradycardia and had to run multiple miles to another location to enlist so his heart rate was up

 

[Tod osier]

Please read a book called “caffeine blues” if you think coffee is in any way a “health food”
Coffee has not been proven to be “healthy” (which is not even a scientific term, therefore would never be referenced in a study)
caffeine is literally a pesticide that plants produce to kill insects and animals that eat it’s seed or leaf.

You came into this thread very aggressively...

I'll point out that you are picky on the definition of "healthy", you should also be equally careful with the definition of the word "pesticide". Caffeine is absolutely not a pesticide (even if you say it is "literally" a pesticide) and to say that shows less than tangential knowledge of the subject matter.

Caffeine is a secondary plant metabolite or phytochemical. It is absolutely produced to protect plants from herbivores, but not by killing them but, by causing them to choose to eat something else.

 

[IBen]

I was referring to insects not herbivores i believe it has been shown to kill insects.

You came into this thread very aggressively...

I'll point out that you are picky on the definition of "healthy", you should also be equally careful with the definition of the word "pesticide". Caffeine is absolutely not a pesticide (even if you say it is "literally" a pesticide) and to say that shows less than tangential knowledge of the subject matter.

Caffeine is a secondary plant metabolite or phytochemical. It is absolutely produced to protect plants from herbivores, but not by killing them but, by causing them to choose to eat something else.

 

[Tod osier]

I was referring to insects not herbivores i believe it has been shown to kill insects.

Organisms that eat plants are herbivores - therefore any organism that was attempting to ear a caffeine producing plant would be an herbivore, be it an insect, mammal or mollusk. Those tricky definitions....