Anyone familiar with the Cimarron River in NM?

[SDHNTR]

Picked up my son after a trek at Philmont and took a day to flyfish the Cimarron river. I was excited to hear about high numbers of brown trout and a “red chili water” section of catch and release only. Yet I left confused and disappointed.

Yes, I caught a few browns, but what shocked me were the stocked rainbows. What the heck? Why is there a stretch of river managed as C&R only, yet planted with lame tailless rainbows? Why not manage it for wild trout? Very disappointing. I’ve never seen a C&R water with deliberately planted non native trout. Is this a normal thing or did I just catch some sort of anomaly where they needed to dump some planters somewhere?

 

[LCguy]

It is a popular river that runs out of a popular lake through a popular state park and through Philmont itself. I think that is the least surprising place to catch stocked fish in all of America.

 

[SDHNTR]

It is a popular river that runs out of a popular lake through a popular state park and through Philmont itself. I think that is the least surprising place to catch stocked fish in all of America.

I agree with your assessment throughout most of it, but the first couple miles designated “red chili” and specifically C&R? That makes zero sense.

 

[jolemons]

What's surprising about it? A popular fishery could be wiped out with high mortality from barbed hooks and angler fish take. If you want to fish native Rio Grande cutthroat travel up the road to Costilla Creek in Valle Vidal.

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[SDHNTR]

What's surprising about it? A popular fishery could be wiped out with high mortality from barbed hooks and angler fish take. If you want to fish native Rio Grande cutthroat travel up the road to Costilla Creek in Valle Vidal.

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I guess no one is understanding my surprise. I fully understand and support stretches of water that are C&R and artificial lures/flies only. That’s not the issue I have.

I don’t understand the logic of stocking trout into such stretches of water vs managing for wild fish. Stock the stretches designated for take.

 

[jolemons]

I guess no one is understanding my surprise. I fully understand and support stretches of water that are C&R and artificial lures/flies only. That’s not the issue I have.

I don’t understand the logic of stocking trout into such stretches of water vs managing for wild fish.

Ah, now I get it. There is no native fish population. They have been occasionally stocked, but browns and rainbows quickly out compete cutthroat. To kill off the Cimmaron for a native reintroduction would take years and cost $$$ while upsetting the angling community.

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[dtrkyman]

The browns while they naturally reproduce are not native either, most streams and rivers here are bastardized with invasive species.

I do not get that way much but they are likely stocking those fish in other sections of the river and they just wind up there?

I packed into a high country lake looking for cutthroat and caught 90% rainbows! ugg.

At least the stockers will take the brunt of the take and save some wild browns to grow.

 

[SDHNTR]

Ah, now I get it. There is no native fish population. They have been occasionally stocked, but browns and rainbows quickly out compete cutthroat. To kill off the Cimmaron for a native reintroduction would take years and cost $$$ while upsetting the angling community.

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The browns aren’t wild? I hear what you’re saying, but in this case, I think it could be more easily done since it’s a tailwater. The red chilli section is the first couple of miles so why not just stock the trout in the lower section for take and leave that upper section for naturally propagating fish? I always thought that was the whole point of having waters designated as C & R only.

 

[cuerro viejo]

The browns aren’t wild? I hear what you’re saying, but in this case, I think it could be more easily done since it’s a tailwater. The red chilli section is the first couple of miles so why not just stock the trout in the lower section for take and leave that upper section for naturally propagating fish? I always thought that was the whole point of having waters designated as C & R only.

They are native to Europe and Western Asia….. as far as wild sure invasives can be wild

 

[jolemons]

The browns aren’t wild? I hear what you’re saying, but in this case, I think it could be more easily done since it’s a tailwater. The red chilli section is the first couple of miles so why not just stock the trout in the lower section for take and leave that upper section for naturally propagating fish? I always thought that was the whole point of having waters designated as C & R only.

Browns are non-native the US. They were stocked all over the US beginning in the 1800s.

To nativize a fishery, you start at the headwaters and install a fish barrier. This ensures that no non-natives can migrate into the portion being restored. You then work your way down over the course of years. In the case of the Cimarron, it would be an incredibly complex project that would begin in the headwaters of Eagle Nest Lake. In an area like the Cimarron, there would be very high risk of non-natives being released even if they went to the effort of restoring cutthroat.

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[SDHNTR]

Browns are non-native the US. They were stocked all over the US beginning in the 1800s.

To nativize a fishery, you start at the headwaters and install a fish barrier. This ensures that no non-natives can migrate into the portion being restored. You then work your way down over the course of years. In the case of the Cimarron, it would be an incredibly complex project that would begin in the headwaters of Eagle Nest Lake. In an area like the Cimarron, there would be very high risk of non-natives being released even if they went to the effort of restoring cutthroat.

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Yes, I’m well aware. I know they aren’t native, and truthfully, I don’t really care. I just care that they are wild.

I get it. It would be a big undertaking, but to deliberately drop stocked trout into catch and release designated water still just makes no sense to me. If nothing else, it’s a waste of money and resources. Put those things somewhere where the power baiters can kill them and eat them.