Anyone else frustrated with reloading?

[BCsteve]

Reloading can be a frustrating process, I often come back from the range with more questions than answers. With the component shortage these days it makes experimenting even more stressful. Can't afford to waste a box of bullets with different powder charges or seating depth when you don't know when or if you'll be able to get more!

 

[Zappaman]

Huh... Maybe I need to start a "gun tweaking" biz here in Kansas??? I LOVE working up loads and because I shoot COLD barrels (between shots) it's best to have four guns out at once on my range, so you can keep shooting the series of guns while they each have time to cool off while rotating between them.

But I can definitely say that reloading is ALL ABOUT KEEPING NOTES, and building process (good habits) and after a while (and many guns) you start to get a "knack" for knowing what works and what doesn't.

I have a checklist I use before taking a gun out. Last year I worked up a load with a gun for a buddy and damn if I forgot to torque the scope down well. I was getting 2" groups with a gun that should have been giving me 1" (or better) groups. I embarrassed myself after about 25 guns or so through my range the last 15 years-- dumb mistake. We can ALL make them... even us "seasoned" shooters

Keep at it... many GREAT ideas here and sad you had to dump the gun to get back to good here (I probably wouldn't have given up until I pulled the barrel >

 

[Devilfish]

Huh... Maybe I need to start a "gun tweaking" biz here in Kansas??? I LOVE working up loads and because I shoot COLD barrels (between shots) it's best to have four guns out at once on my range, so you can keep shooting the series of guns while they each have time to cool off while rotating between them.

But I can definitely say that reloading is ALL ABOUT KEEPING NOTES, and building process (good habits) and after a while (and many guns) you start to get a "knack" for knowing what works and what doesn't.

I have a checklist I use before taking a gun out. Last year I worked up a load with a gun for a buddy and damn if I forgot to torque the scope down well. I was getting 2" groups with a gun that should have been giving me 1" (or better) groups. I embarrassed myself after about 25 guns or so through my range the last 15 years-- dumb mistake. We can ALL make them... even us "seasoned" shooters

Keep at it... many GREAT ideas here and sad you had to dump the gun to get back to good here (I probably wouldn't have given up until I pulled the barrel >

Sometimes you can get a lemon, I remember a Ruger 77 in 25-06 I got for a longer range varmint rifle, I badly wanted it to shoot well, and tried every factory load available, along with loading a number of handloads. Even changed the scope. It just wouldn't shoot. That was over 30 years ago, but I still remember the lessons that particular rifle taught me.

 

[Travis Bertrand]

Whenever my load goes to garbage, I’ll go completely through the rifle retorquing every screw, checking barrel clearance, and cleaning the barrel including copper. 9/10 times I find the problem there.

With annealing, I anneal every time. This is new to me wishing the last two years but I see the importance for proper and consistent neck tension. With that said, ive never annealed a peice of brass up until that point and have got great results from my loads.


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[LookinforDirt]

Factory ammo would be sized down likely to minimum SAAMI specs, the shoulders would be bumped back more. COAL would probably quite a bit less than what a reloader may load, etc. Bullet jump would very likely be more than what most reloader’s would setup. That is where I probably would have focused on that .308. It could be 1. It liked more bullet jump than what you were setting for that rifle and bullet choice. Or maybe more likely 2. It had less freebore than most .308 rifles and needed the bullet set back more. Factory ammo would be set back more. Can’t remember if you said it but, I would have measured COAL on a box of good shooting factory loads and bought a box of those bullets. Then would have experimented with COAL starting below what the factory rounds were set to, work up to it, and then over.

 

[MojaveJim]

Sounds like a seating depth issue. Did you measure the distance off the lands when starting? Is it shot a lot? How much throat erosion since load development? Seating depth has more to due with group size than a consistent powder charge. Do a search for the Satterlee method of load development, Scott has it figured out for the fastest way with the least amount of components for a good solid load that you wont be able to get from a "factory load".

 

[Wiscgunner]

Assuming you are taking your measurements from your actual rifle chamber and not bumping shoulders and seating from a book then I would look at concentricity of your reloads. Neck size with a mandrel die to eliminate concentricity errors induced by expander balls and possibly worsened by attempts to polish it.

Easy test to help identify if this is a problem and you don’t have access to a concentricity gage use of a sharpie. Align all of your brass in your press exactly the same orientation and maintain the orientation between rounds as they are loaded in the rifle. Cheaper to simply get a Sinclair mandrel die setup than burn the ammo though.

This thread will have little value beside blowing off some steam and seeing if this is typical among other reloader as…

I’ve been reloading for approx 4 years. I’m self taught by reading many different forums, books, asking questions on forums and watching YouTube videos. However I’ve never felt like I’ve really hit the nail on the head with reloading…

I’ve got a browning 270 win that likes about any factory ammo minus a few (nosler 130 accubond to name one). A few years ago I worked up a load that shot decent (around 1 MOA at 100 yrds with an ES of approx 20-30fps, 130 Nosler BT with 58.3 grains of H4831sc). I recently went back to this load and the gun doesn’t like the load at all anymore?? I tried with a clean barrel and a dirty barrel but it was around 1.5-2.0 MOA on several different days. Factory ammo still shoots sub MOA in the rifle.

I have a 308 that is picky but I was able to find a 5 shot under 1 MOA load that it liked (155 Scenar and 41 grains of benchmark) and I shot several different groups over a month to make sure it liked that load… well as it would have it, that load is starting to fall apart on me again and open up just like my 270 did….

I try to keep my reloading process as consistent as possible. I push the should back a few thou with a FL die, trim/chamfer everything regardless of the length of the case, take my time and measure each of my powder charges on a frankford scale, load the batch of ammo to within a few thou of COAL and use high quality brass, primers, powder, bullets, etc. I’ve checked my scale base and scope rings several times on both rifles and there’s never any issue with them. Scopes are high quality $500-$1000 scopes (vortex, Zeiss, leupold).

However, regardless of my efforts, I continually get 1.5-2 moa loads with ES of +-25 with 3-5 shot groups. Any one else in the same boat? Has anyone found the light at the end of the tunnel? Lol


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you are taking your measurements from your actual rifle chamber and not bumping shoulders and seating length from a book then I would look at concentricity of your reloads. Neck size with a mandrel die to eliminate concentricity errors induced by expander balls and possibly worsened by attempts to polish it.

Easy test to help identify if this is a problem and you don’t have access to a concentricity gage use of a sharpie. Align all of your brass in your press exactly the same orientation and maintain the orientation between rounds as they are loaded in the rifle. Think of loading bananas in your rifle...alignment of the bsnsna curve withh give more consistent groups while random orientation of the curves will open the spread.

Cheaper to simply get a Sinclair mandrel die setup than burn the ammo though.

A concentricity gage isn’t very beneficial with an accurate setup but in a budget setup it can really help you diagnose poor alignment from your press or your body die or your neck sizing or your bullet seating.

 

[Lawnboi]

I’m also not a fan of tinkering with loads. It’s annoying.

I don’t necessarily mind reloading. That being said things that drive me nuts include trim/chamfer/debur when I know I can buy a giraud, and my chargemaster constantly overthrowing.

 

[Vern400]

This thread will have little value beside blowing off some steam and seeing if this is typical among other reloader as…

I’ve been reloading for approx 4 years. I’m self taught by reading many different forums, books, asking questions on forums and watching YouTube videos. However I’ve never felt like I’ve really hit the nail on the head with reloading…

I’ve got a browning 270 win that likes about any factory ammo minus a few (nosler 130 accubond to name one). A few years ago I worked up a load that shot decent (around 1 MOA at 100 yrds with an ES of approx 20-30fps, 130 Nosler BT with 58.3 grains of H4831sc). I recently went back to this load and the gun doesn’t like the load at all anymore?? I tried with a clean barrel and a dirty barrel but it was around 1.5-2.0 MOA on several different days. Factory ammo still shoots sub MOA in the rifle.

I have a 308 that is picky but I was able to find a 5 shot under 1 MOA load that it liked (155 Scenar and 41 grains of benchmark) and I shot several different groups over a month to make sure it liked that load… well as it would have it, that load is starting to fall apart on me again and open up just like my 270 did….

I try to keep my reloading process as consistent as possible. I push the should back a few thou with a FL die, trim/chamfer everything regardless of the length of the case, take my time and measure each of my powder charges on a frankford scale, load the batch of ammo to within a few thou of COAL and use high quality brass, primers, powder, bullets, etc. I’ve checked my scale base and scope rings several times on both rifles and there’s never any issue with them. Scopes are high quality $500-$1000 scopes (vortex, Zeiss, leupold).

However, regardless of my efforts, I continually get 1.5-2 moa loads with ES of +-25 with 3-5 shot groups. Any one else in the same boat? Has anyone found the light at the end of the tunnel? Lol


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When you start reloading (4 years is a start), you start to learn where a LOT of limits are. Like, you can be doing everything right with reloading. I know one guy who always took his rifle apart cleaning it. And his point of impact changed every time because of the stock fitment. And another shooting a 7mm mag needed 20 shots to get his rifle shooting groups again after he cleaned it to bare metal. Consistency requires that NOTHING changes. It might be you. It might be temperature sensitivity. It might be how your barrel shoots clean and dirty. It could be you just started neck turning, or anything that affects case neck tension and concentricity. I have even got primers that CAUSED more ES than other batches. I guess the moral of the story is: when you're shooting groups (5 or more perhaps in a row) under an inch, make several hundred rounds with the SAME jug of powder, the SAME lot of primers, the SAME cases prepped the SAME way and be really ticky about it. And dont screw with the rifle til they're gone. Frankly I know lots of folks talk about sub 1 MOA groups. I know less folks who can come to my farm and print a 3 inch group at 400 by just jerking their rifle out of the truck and sending a few. I practice cold shots on hot days, cold days, windy days, crappy thunderstorm days when I can barely make out a target for the rain. And I can't sling a 1MOA every time. You're on the right track, but there's a big difference between shooting 0.8 inches a few times and being able to do it every time. Even marathon runners have good and bad days I guess. Keep the faith!

 

[Shooting50]

Expanding mandrel die for opening the necks?


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You said you are using a Hornady seater die. How are you seating your bullets sounds like a definite run out issue to me. When seating start the bullet in half way stop and turn the bullet 180 Degrees and see what you get, works for me!

 

[TimberHunter]

You said you are using a Hornady seater die. How are you seating your bullets sounds like a definite run out issue to me. When seating start the bullet in half way stop and turn the bullet 180 Degrees and see what you get, works for me!

Thanks for the info, I have be doing that exact process since starting to reload. I don’t remember where I read it but I’ve always done it


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[alfmoonspace]

Reloading can get costly with expensive equipment to feel like you have turned every rock. Try having a buddy over that you trust that reloads to just check your steps and make sure your not goofing on a simple step. Also (if it hasn't been said before) chrono your rounds to see if you are hitting a node.

 

[RyanT26]

I enjoy the actual reloading process. I get frustrated/ stressed out with the load development more than anything. It seems the only time but I’m able to go out and shoot it’s either 106°, raining, or 15 to 20 mph winds with 25mph gusts.

 

[Newtosavage]

I guess I got lucky. I started with a Lee hand kit, hammer and all. From the get-go, my rounds were shooting very well. Looking back, that stupid $50 Lee Loader kit produced some of my best shooting ammo. Once I got a press and scale, things got a little better but not that much.

I would agree that reloading isn't for everyone.

It's a fun winter time hobby for me, and I am able to produce what I consider to be really good quality ammo, so that's a win-win.

 

[davethadog]

typically wet tumble, resize (don't expand necks yet), corn cob to remove lube, anneal, expand necks and then go about priming and loading.

You anneal after you size? No judgement, I have just always assumed everyone does it before sizing. Is there a reason for why or just because thats what works for you?

 

[DANNY-L]

I think sometimes when you shoot you can actually try to hard to get that perfect group. when you do this you get tense and muscles get tight, instead just lay behind the rifle, relax and focus. Take breaks as needed when it don't go your way then try a bit later.

 

[Rich M]

I guess I got lucky. I started with a Lee hand kit, hammer and all. From the get-go, my rounds were shooting very well. Looking back, that stupid $50 Lee Loader kit produced some of my best shooting ammo. Once I got a press and scale, things got a little better but not that much.

I would agree that reloading isn't for everyone.

It's a fun winter time hobby for me, and I am able to produce what I consider to be really good quality ammo, so that's a win-win.

Buddy of mine did same thing. Those bullets would touch at 200 yds. Amazing what you can do with a hammer and a powder scoop.

 

[Newtosavage]

Buddy of mine did same thing. Those bullets would touch at 200 yds. Amazing what you can do with a hammer and a powder scoop.

I only did the powder scoop for my first 20-40 loads. I bought a grain scale as my first reloading accessory after that little Lee Loader kit. But honestly that was all I needed to make ammo that is as good as I've ever made.

Oh, 2nd purchase was a hand primer. I HATED those primers going off using the Lee Loader. LOL

 

[Idaho_Potato]

This thread is a great example of some of the frustration I have with reloading. Describe a problem and 30 internet experts will chime in with solutions A through Z. There is a black box component and some variables just cant be controlled.

 

[Newtosavage]

This thread is a great example of some of the frustration I have with reloading. Describe a problem and 30 internet experts will chime in with solutions A through Z. There is a black box component and some variables just cant be controlled.

Well then don't rely on the "internet experts." Get a couple reloading manuals and figure it out yourself the way we did. Jeepers.