Anybody watch state of the union?

[5MilesBack]

What is the end result when you cut taxes and increase spending? Certainly isn’t GDP growth. Any insights on what the model of cutting revenue and increasing spending looks like long term?

Long term we should be cutting spending.........i.e......all those government subsidized welfare programs including general welfare checks, food stamps, Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid, SS, FEMA, foreign aid, etc, etc. But good luck getting any support for that on either side. I've always said that we should be entitled to whatever we paid into Medicare and SS (plus interest) and not a penny more.

 

[HuntHarder]

For those that have high enough paying jobs to have retirement accounts....

Pretty tough to save money for retirement when your job barely pays enough to cover the basics, you know, thing like food, clothing, shelter, heat.

Ask your friends and family to be honest...see how many save $19,500 per year (max by law) into their 401K's.

The average median household retirement savings:

Age	Amount Saved
20s	$16,000
30s	$45,000
40s	$63,000
50s	$117,000
60s	$172,000

That tells me a couple things:

1. People aren't coming close to maxing out the Federal maximum retirement savings, mostly due to the high cost of housing, food, clothing, heat, fuel, vehicles, etc. etc. combined with lower wages and lack of buying power for the dollars you do make. When your paycheck is just high enough to cover the basic expenses, tough to save much for retirement.

2. Even though you're touting these huge "gains" in retirement accounts...the average mean household amount they have splashing around in the various stock investments, doesn't amount to jack shit.

Plus, those huge gains can just as easily go right down the crapper (with no blame or praise to either political party, because there are lots of things out of the control of any politician/political party in regard to markets).

Or people live above their means or made bad decisions in life when they were younger. Saving money takes discipline, most do not have any.

 

[Trial153]

The level of partisan hackery always amazes me. Saps on both sides of the equaltion cant see past an R or D. When you look at how both these parties have governed over the last 50 years how anyone can think either one of them is the answer to problems is baffling.

 

[5MilesBack]

For those that have high enough paying jobs to have retirement accounts....

Pretty tough to save money for retirement when your job barely pays enough to cover the basics, you know, thing like food, clothing, shelter, heat.

Or a high enough paying job to have a smartphone, internet, a TV, paid TV subscriptions, new vehicles, smokes, alcohol, fast food, eating at restaurants, clothes and shoes, guns, bows, ammo, fancy hunting clothes, etc, etc.

Everyone invests in something.......everyone. The funny thing is.......I've never seen a skinny poor person in America. Why is that?

 

[BuzzH]

Or people live above their means or made bad decisions in life when they were younger. Saving money takes discipline, most do not have any.

Yeah, I'm sure with the mean average household income of $63,000 a year...its all bad decisions why people put a priority on having a roof over their head, food on their plates, and heat for their homes and find it tough to sock away $19,500 a year for their retirements.

WOW!

 

[BuzzH]

Or a high enough paying job to have a smartphone, internet, a TV, paid TV subscriptions, new vehicles, smokes, alcohol, fast food, eating at restaurants, clothes and shoes, guns, bows, ammo, fancy hunting clothes, etc, etc.

Everyone invests in something.......everyone. The funny thing is.......I've never seen a skinny poor person in America. Why is that?

You really want to know...or are you going to blow a fuse when the facts are presented? Think farm subsidies, what kind of food the poor can afford...for starters.

 

[5MilesBack]

The level of partisan hackery always amazes me. Saps on both sides of the equaltion cant see past an R or D.

I wish we didn't have any parties at all........just "what makes sense versus what doesn't make any sense"......then we wouldn't have any partisan hackery. We kind of do that already, but people are tied to a certain party or ideology because of that.

 

[HuntHarder]

Yeah, I'm sure with the mean average household income of $63,000 a year...its all bad decisions why people put a priority on having a roof over their head, food on their plates, and heat for their homes and find it tough to sock away $19,500 a year for their retirements.

WOW!

Did they just stop contributing 3 years ago? Obama had 8 years to get them some $$ in retirement, how did that go for them? To think EVERYONE can put almost 20k in a 401k a year is not realistic.... Income inequality exists because of many different factors. Blaming it on Trump is just an easy cop out.

 

[BuzzH]

Or a high enough paying job to have a smartphone, internet, a TV, paid TV subscriptions, new vehicles, smokes, alcohol, fast food, eating at restaurants, clothes and shoes, guns, bows, ammo, fancy hunting clothes, etc, etc.

Everyone invests in something.......everyone. The funny thing is.......I've never seen a skinny poor person in America. Why is that?

Lets just say the average household does nothing for fun...just the basics, and we'll use the median household income for the example.

Lets see the math you use to pencil out how in the $#ck someone making that money can save nearly 1/3rd of their pre tax income for retirement, while paying taxes, ss, etc. and basic living expenses from what's left.

Good luck with your argument.

 

[BuzzH]

Did they just stop contributing 3 years ago? Obama had 8 years to get them some $$ in retirement, how did that go for them? To think EVERYONE can put almost 20k in a 401k a year is not realistic.... Income inequality exists because of many different factors. Blaming it on Trump is just an easy cop out.

Who said I was blaming it on Trump? Who said the same thing hasn't been going on for decades?

Its an illustration of even the most basic of tax exemptions being heavily skewed to those in the higher tax brackets...if only obviously.

 

[HuntHarder]

If you start contributing to your retirement at 18 years old, 2k a year, until you retire, your account will be worth over 1 million dollars. Simple math. Instead, most wait until they are 40 and then wonder why they can not get ahead while trying to contribute 20% of their income to catch up.

 

[brsnow]

I think this thread highlights that people struggle to see past themselves.

 

[LandYacht]

^^^ this, so much of this. Why prepare now when you can sock that $2k into having cable/satellite instead? Or a couple lattes at Starbucks a week.




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[LandYacht]

Dang it Brsnow, you snuck that in between the post I was pointing to lol


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[HuntHarder]

Who said I was blaming it on Trump? Who said the same thing hasn't been going on for decades?

Its an illustration of even the most basic of tax exemptions being heavily skewed to those in the higher tax brackets...if only obviously.

We agree it is NOT Trumps fault then? We will disagree on the root cause... I appreciate the dialogue without the name calling.

 

[tdhanses]

For those that have high enough paying jobs to have retirement accounts....

Pretty tough to save money for retirement when your job barely pays enough to cover the basics, you know, thing like food, clothing, shelter, heat.

Ask your friends and family to be honest...see how many save $19,500 per year (max by law) into their 401K's.

The average median household retirement savings:

Age	Amount Saved
20s	$16,000
30s	$45,000
40s	$63,000
50s	$117,000
60s	$172,000

That tells me a couple things:

1. People aren't coming close to maxing out the Federal maximum retirement savings, mostly due to the high cost of housing, food, clothing, heat, fuel, vehicles, etc. etc. combined with lower wages and lack of buying power for the dollars you do make. When your paycheck is just high enough to cover the basic expenses, tough to save much for retirement.

2. Even though you're touting these huge "gains" in retirement accounts...the average mean household amount they have splashing around in the various stock investments, doesn't amount to jack shit.

Plus, those huge gains can just as easily go right down the crapper (with no blame or praise to either political party, because there are lots of things out of the control of any politician/political party in regard to markets).

And how many people that have only saved that much have multiple newer vehicles and a really nice home? You don’t have to max out your 401K to see it gain, just $3k in a 401k 3 years ago would be more then double that value today, plus if you added $3k a year your already at the bottom number in savings on your list. Problem is our youth and middle age class was never taught the importance of savings.

In the end we all are responsible for our own choices and those choices will effect our income and expenses, if you can’t make it work where you currently reside might be time to move. Also In the past 20 years it has become much harder to make a good living in rural America as the populations have overall decreased due to lack of good paying jobs and the youth not returning to where they grew up. Unfortunately we see current Dem AG’s trying to stop the growth of tech to these rural areas. Once the Rural parts of the country can offer businesses and people the means to work for any company no matter their location, we’ll see growth once again in rural America as many that moved for good paying jobs would move back in a heart beat if they could afford to.

There’s no reason you can’t make money in a larger populated area if you try as there is plenty of work, my nephew that is 16 made $19k last summer working construction. It’ll be hard for a 16 year old to make this kind of money in a town of 500, the work isn’t there.

 

[BuzzH]

If you start contributing to your retirement at 18 years old 2k a year until you retire, your account will be worth over 1 million dollars. Simple math. Instead, most wait until they are 40 and then wonder why they can not get ahead while trying to contribute 20% of their income to catch up.

Right...it is simple math. What isn't simple is when you're 18 years old finding a way to pay for college, eat, keep a jalopy of a vehicle running, and having a place to live...AND putting 2k away for retirement.

Ask me how I know...and yes, my wife and I are very fortunate to have both put ourselves through college over 25 years ago when it was actually affordable, land good professional jobs, and smart enough to save and make great investments.

I'm just not callous enough to believe everyone is in my situation and that we cant, as a country, do better for everyone, including those that aren't as fortunate.

I'm also not callous enough to claim that those without an education and have lowering payings jobs, that don't make enough to put money into retirement accounts are a bunch of drunks, yapping on the latest cell phone, wearing Gucci jeans, smoking cigarettes, while rolling through town in an escalade....

 

[Savagenut]

At 2000 a year it will take 57 years. So if you retire at 75 then yes you’ll have a million dollars. Which in 57 years won’t be worth nearly as much.

 

[4ester]

What does maxing out your 401k have to do with better retirement performance?

Rate of Return is a percentage, not a dollar amount. Those that only put 1,000 in their account see the same ROR.

Only 10-13% of people can max it out. Not sure how maxing out was brought into this thread.


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[tdhanses]

Yeah, I'm sure with the mean average household income of $63,000 a year...its all bad decisions why people put a priority on having a roof over their head, food on their plates, and heat for their homes and find it tough to sock away $19,500 a year for their retirements.

WOW!

At $63k a year you shouldn’t live in a $200k home, drive a new vehicle, play golf and complain. Sorry but when I only made $40k a year I could still save and afford my life, hunting and gear was what I couldn’t afford as much as I can now.

There is zero reason at $63k a year you can’t save.

Also it’s funny your stuck on $19.5, you don’t have to start at the max, no one does but all you have to do is start and keep increasing it with time, it’s pretty easy.