Anybody Ditch the Bubble Level?

[Beetroot]

Any preferred Flatline Ops models? I remember Frank recommending the Halo X ...

At $135 I don't see a reason to buy the Halo X.
The Vortex Pro or MKM machining bubble level is the same shape and layout (meaning it sits just above the parallax turret and easy to see) for 1/2 or 1/3 the cost.

I've got a few of the Vortex Pro bubble levels and like them.
I tend to agree with Frank, use them as a training aid so you train yourself to not need it in the field.
Saying that shooting both eyes open makes it easy to see, but you don't want to be spending all your focus fine tuning the bubble level.

 

[LostWapiti]

I do think the importance of the level is blown out of proportion. People act like if the rifle is off by a couple degrees you could never hit anything. Can it matter? Yes absolutely. But this last weekend I was at a match and was forced to shoot 750 yards with the rifle canted 10-15 degrees and was still making impacts no issue. I did know I was off though and held my windage a bit to compensate.

 

[Fire_9]

I do think the importance of the level is blown out of proportion. People act like if the rifle is off by a couple degrees you could never hit anything. Can it matter? Yes absolutely. But this last weekend I was at a match and was forced to shoot 750 yards with the rifle canted 10-15 degrees and was still making impacts no issue. I did know I was off though and held my windage a bit to compensate.

Knowing you're canted vs not knowing canted is the problem though. You made a correction because you knew you were inducing error. Maybe I'm just screwed up between the ears but in broken terrain, my hit rates went waaaay up after installing a level

 

[apieceofwork]

At $135 I don't see a reason to buy the Halo X.
The Vortex Pro or MKM machining bubble level is the same shape and layout (meaning it sits just above the parallax turret and easy to see) for 1/2 or 1/3 the cost.

The Flatline Halo-X can be installed without removing your scope. The Vortex is too thick for that to be a possibility for most people.

I'm considering one myself but I'm not yet convinced I need one for hunting within 500 yards.

 

[wind gypsy]

I'm considering one myself but I'm not yet convinced I need one for hunting within 500 yards.

Kind of akin to accepting a scope with a zero that floats around a click or two right or left of zero but is often centered up pretty good at least in regards to a 500 yard shot. Unlikely to be the cause of a bad shot but could be a contributing factor occasionally.

 

[apieceofwork]

Kind of akin to accepting a scope with a zero that floats around a click or two right or left of zero but is often centered up pretty good at least in regards to a 500 yard shot. Unlikely to be the cause of a bad shot but could be a contributing factor occasionally.

Yeah, on one hand it might not make a difference in most hunting scenarios, but on the other hand, there's no real downside other than the cost and minimal amount of time to install.

 

[huntsman22]

On the other hand, other than cost and being a pain in the ass, there is no downside to hauling a crutch up the mountain in case you hurt your leg, either.....

 

[Wacko]

I've tried to use them. Seems they always move on the scope tube and then when I think I'm level I'm way off. I took them off.

If I could find one that doesn't snag on stuff, stayed put, and wasn't a hassle I might use one.

Then there are some credible people who say they are not needed. Thomas Haugland did some testing and found it just slowed him down and it did not affect his field shooting.

So...I'll keep it simple until I prove to myself if I need one or not. Or find one I can see while addressing the rifle for the shot.

 

[Shortschaf]

On the other hand, other than cost and being a pain in the ass, there is no downside to hauling a crutch up the mountain in case you hurt your leg, either.....

 

[Sled]

I've tried to use them. Seems they always move on the scope tube and then when I think I'm level I'm way off. I took them off.

If I could find one that doesn't snag on stuff, stayed put, and wasn't a hassle I might use one.

You need to check your mounting process. If the bubble is slipping then so are your rings. Degrease and use loctite with a torque wrench set to inch pounds.

Several companies make rings with the bubble built in, like UM. I won't argue a bubble is mandatory but it sure helps if you hunt in the mountains or the target shoot long distance.

 

[Weldor]

Took me quite awhile to place mine where I can actually see it in focus. I shoot with both eyes open so my left eye picks it up. I agree with most of you , it took a lot of ammo to get used to the level and checking it before sending it.

 

[Wacko]

You need to check your mounting process. If the bubble is slipping then so are your rings. Degrease and use loctite with a torque wrench set to inch pounds.

Several companies make rings with the bubble built in, like UM. I won't argue a bubble is mandatory but it sure helps if you hunt in the mountains or the target shoot long distance.

That's what I do. I tried to mount one again a couple days ago....seems I can no longer get it in focus due to my eyes anymore - no matter where I put it........so it will be a non-issue until I decide I need something with little lights on it I suppose. A magnifier might work...if I could see both the turret and the level..I was going to use a drop of rubber cement on the level ring...should eliminate any doubts.

Not going to worry about it right now. I do hunt in the mountains, I do practice in the mountains, I don't shoot far enough that a degree or two will matter anyway....

 

[grfox92]

I have personally missed shots I know I would have hit if I had checked my cant before firing. Seems to be most important out past 600 yard. The further the distance the more dramatic the result.

Needless to say there is a level on all my guns.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

 

[Nine Banger]

I have personally missed shots I know I would have hit if I had checked my cant before firing. Seems to be most important out past 600 yard. The further the distance the more dramatic the result.

I've noticed the same thing.

We're getting away with murder below 600 but it goes to crap all of a sudden when you start slinging them at 600 and above.

Then you fix the fundamentals and center punch it.

 

[grfox92]

I've noticed the same thing.

We're getting away with murder below 600 but it goes to crap all of a sudden when you start slinging them at 600 and above.

Then you fix the fundamentals and center punch it.

Exactly. This is with heavy PRS rifles that aren't moving. So when I miss I can look at the bubble and know my cant was off because I know the rifle didn't move.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

 

[Chris in TN]

I think some people are inherently better than others at sensing what is 'level' but I don't think those people are necessarily better shooters, but I've learned that I have my own internal bias (I usually cant clockwise a hair if I don't check) and I'm the sort of person who'll argue with the level then go home and check it against a weighted string and it's right, I'm wrong, but almost always in one direction by a consistent amount, and it's never bothered me because of that. Then I started trying to teach other people to shoot at distances (mainly my kids but there are others). I immediately noticed that people would fight me back and forth to cant their rifle an amount that I could eyeball as being grossly wrong while standing several feet away. I realized that in the future I needed to be more aware of it and once I realized what a problem it was when multiple people were shooting the same rifle, it really opened my mind a bit.

You can buy a cheap clamp-on level on Amazon that is light years better than nothing. I have one rifle with a level built into a ring and I have never been able to make it level, with the turret level and the reticle aligned with a level string (plumb bob) in the distance. I've learned to shoot that rifle a half-bubble to the right and never buy those rings again.

 

[RedSmoke]

A scope bubble is one of those valuable but marginal additions to a rifle. A few degrees can create a significant impact shift at long distances, but it's far down the list of reasons you'll might miss. I always set them up so they can be seen in my peripheral without shifting my head. It's just one of those little checks I do as apart of my process. Check parallax, check dope, get a good sight picture, verify you're level, then send it.

 

[atmat]

I think some people are inherently better than others at sensing what is 'level'

This is painfully obvious whenever my wife hangs something on our walls.

 

[neandth]

It's more about shot to shot consistency then being perfectly level. I check my bubble level against my send it against a plumb bob at 30y and they all check out.

 

[nm.otter]

Decades of working in and on buildings have given me a pretty good eye for pictures, doorframes, and the like. Put me on a steep grade in broken terrain (shooting someplace other than straight up or straight down) and the level becomes quite helpful.