Any science behind offset degree vs arrow weight or FOC?

[sacklunch]

Yeah, what next….comparing Pineapples to acorns?

Threads like this are frustrating…you try to give guys quality advice…but all they want to do is argue. Unfortunately, that drives all of the experienced guys away.

Maybe one of you guys should meet him at the range and just smoke him….might be humbling….grin

Im not an expert arrow builder, not a pro archer either, never claimed I was, but I can hold my own on the line. Any of you seen the podium in anything? Regionally or nationally ranked? Or is post count your only clout to justify your 'expert' status?

Either way, I'd be happy to oblige. Let's say we take a week, gives time for those with set schedules, to get down to your local range, shoot a Vegas round with your hunting bow/arrows, scored, signed and dated by your local shop owner with shops name and your screen name. I
may not take the "podium" here, but also not one to back down from a challenge...prove it on paper. If you don't absolutely demolish the dude who just shot a compound again for the 1st time in 2 years, that's on you.
@Beendare @Reburn @Billy Goat

 

[Billy Goat]

Im not an expert arrow builder, not a pro archer either, never claimed I was, but I can hold my own on the line. Any of you seen the podium in anything? Regionally or nationally ranked? Or is post count your only clout to justify your 'expert' status?

Either way, I'd be happy to oblige. Let's say we take a week, gives time for those with set schedules, to get down to your local range, shoot a Vegas round with your hunting bow/arrows, scored, signed and dated by your local shop owner with shops name and your screen name. I
may not take the "podium" here, but also not one to back down from a challenge...prove it on paper. If you don't absolutely demolish the dude who just shot a compound again for the 1st time in 2 years, that's on you.
@Beendare @Reburn @Billy Goat

I'll just respond with a yes.


I didn't start the dick measuring contest, but I reckon I'll enter it. I don't have a hunting bow setup right now, but are we talking a hunter class setup, or do you want to makeup the rules on what defines it? Indoor ain't my game, but that's fine. Or we can make it a 720 round, perhaps a field round?


I also don't shoot at a shop, I have my own range. But I can go to a club and have someone sign off, that make you happy?

 

[fngTony]

@sacklunch, you are getting advice from knowledgeable people. Stop trying to measure up everyone. I’m going to have to keep my word from earlier and lock this up as I can’t even tell who said what first when it comes to negative comments.

Edit, opening this up since a couple members want to have a little shooting competition. I just ask that everyone stay civil.

 

[Billy Goat]

I get beat. Sometimes it's embarrassing.


I'm not a "pro" I make a living otherwise.

I spend a lot of time on this stuff. It's my passion.

My goal is to get more people involved in archery. It's a sport I love. It's a largely mental game, most want to subdo it with accessories.

Like I said, you don't buy X's. There's definitely people who are better at it, heck there's a 14 yo girl I shoot with a fair amount that will beat me. Not every time, but damn she's good. Has had excellent coaching from the jump. People I ignored for a while before I knew better.


This doesn't need to be a pissing match, but there will be enough sanctioned shoots that I will be in over the next few months that if someone wants to compare, that's cool.


There's people here I have helped and conversed with that know my credentials. I'm no perfect archer, but I'm decent. Maybe a few people jumped in on my behalf. There's also people here I have learned from, because sometimes I remember I have 2 ears and one mouth, so maybe I should listen more.

I have nerded out on this stuff to an extreme. It's my passion, I'm not going to say I know it all. I will say that I give advice whole heartedly.

 

[sacklunch]

I get beat. Sometimes it's embarrassing.


I'm not a "pro" I make a living otherwise.

I spend a lot of time on this stuff. It's my passion.

My goal is to get more people involved in archery. It's a sport I love. It's a largely mental game, most want to subdo it with accessories.

Like I said, you don't buy X's. There's definitely people who are better at it, heck there's a 14 yo girl I shoot with a fair amount that will beat me. Not every time, but damn she's good. Has had excellent coaching from the jump. People I ignored for a while before I knew better.


This doesn't need to be a pissing match, but there will be enough sanctioned shoots that I will be in over the next few months that if someone wants to compare, that's cool.


There's people here I have helped and conversed with that know my credentials. I'm no perfect archer, but I'm decent. Maybe a few people jumped in on my behalf. There's also people here I have learned from, because sometimes I remember I have 2 ears and one mouth, so maybe I should listen more.

I have nerded out on this stuff to an extreme. It's my passion, I'm not going to say I know it all. I will say that I give advice whole heartedly.

Understood, just realize that by implying someone is trying to "buy x's", some will take that as a slight, implying they are not working hard to improve in all aspects of the sport...for me, striving to build a better arrow than years of store bought is just part of the process of improving, completely disconnected from practice reps. All that aside, nobody with a halfway competitive bone in their body would sit there and have someone say they'll make a "servant" (not your words, but it was said) out of them on the range without taking them up on the competition.

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

@sacklunch, you are getting advice from knowledgeable people. Stop trying to measure up everyone. I’m going to have to keep my word from earlier and lock this up as I can’t even tell who said what first when it comes to negative comments.

Edit, opening this up since a couple members want to have a little shooting competition. I just ask that everyone stay civil.

So no memes? I had one half cooked up when I read this post... guess I need to pay more attention to Rokslide on the weekends

 

[wapitibob]

Evidently a background check is needed..




The FITA guys had this all figured out; vane type, offset, and point weight, and they all have somewhat different setups so there is no "one size" fits all. What you don't want is too little nor too much of anything; foc or offset. A cpl deg offset and higher teens foc is where most everybody runs. You aren't going to shoot the difference between a 1-1/2 and 2 deg offset. Too much offset and the arrow can parachute and groups open up. 120 to 140 up front is also what most are using outdoors. For a hunting setup, that's a 15gr insert and a 125 fp or broadhead.
Experimentation is part of the process but don't spend too much time on the minutia, you can't replace quality time behind the bow.

 

[MattB]

Evidently a background check is needed..

View attachment 546392


The FITA guys had this all figured out; vane type, offset, and point weight, and they all have somewhat different setups so there is no "one size" fits all. What you don't want is too little nor too much of anything; foc or offset. A cpl deg offset and higher teens foc is where most everybody runs. You aren't going to shoot the difference between a 1-1/2 and 2 deg offset. Too much offset and the arrow can parachute and groups open up. 120 to 140 up front is also what most are using outdoors. For a hunting setup, that's a 15gr insert and a 125 fp or broadhead.
Experimentation is part of the process but don't spend too much time on the minutia, you can't replace time behind the bow.

Show off.

Good post, although for the benefit of the newbies I do think that the addition of a broadhead to the equation changes the calculus a bit. More drag from the fletching is likely required to offset the additional drag on the front end due to the exposed blades vs a field point.

 

[stanginthe11s]

Evidently a background check is needed..

View attachment 546392


The FITA guys had this all figured out; vane type, offset, and point weight, and they all have somewhat different setups so there is no "one size" fits all. What you don't want is too little nor too much of anything; foc or offset. A cpl deg offset and higher teens foc is where most everybody runs. You aren't going to shoot the difference between a 1-1/2 and 2 deg offset. Too much offset and the arrow can parachute and groups open up. 120 to 140 up front is also what most are using outdoors. For a hunting setup, that's a 15gr insert and a 125 fp or broadhead.
Experimentation is part of the process but don't spend too much time on the minutia, you can't replace quality time behind the bow.

uh, I don't see wapitibob on any of those soooo, just sayin lol.
man, we know I love to get all scientific and even I don't want to touch this one lol.
just run 2 deg. offset and be done with it.
was really looking forward to a shootout though, I want it in person so we can all laugh at each other.

 

[Stickhead31]

I’ve worked at two bow shops as a bow tech and seen a lot of guys worry about the same issues (myself included). As many have mentioned. Fletch them up and shoot your bow. I would fletch 3-4 arrows with one type of vane in a 3 or 4 fletch configuration, and so on and see what groups best AND is the most forgiving at multiple distances. Not just 20 yards or 120 yards but all distances. Too many people worry about FOC. The truth is, even with factory components and a 100 grain point, you have plenty of FOC. Some of the best shooting arrow setups I ever shot were sub 10% FOC.
IMO bareshaft tuning is a waste of time. That’s basically what you do when you go to broadhead tune. Just my 2 cents though, archery is very subjective. There is no replacement for personal experimentation.

 

[Stache Attack]

I think you’re on the right track with what you stated at first. You’re fitting the arrow to the bow. I would fletch 2-3 degree offset with a left helical if you’re running short vanes. I personally think helical direction is more important than offset degrees. Set the fletch as far back as you can without it contacting you/ the string if you run a short ata bow and dl is long. If you want a resume: managed 3 archery shops, few top 10s in Vegas, podium at ibo worlds, multiple 1sts in regional ibo and nfaa. Quite a few buckles from fita field courses.

I don’t think you’re too deep that you’re over thinking it. I think you’re on the right track. I got two shooter bows from Hoyt cut out of the same block for riser and limbs, same strings custom. One spun bareshaft left one spun right. It does make a difference at distance and on how it reacts out of your bow. Why force the arrow the opposite way it wants to go. We already fight hand torque, string contact, and sight picture. Let alone the release.

 

[10ringer]

For a Hunting arrow I want as few degrees of offset I can get away with, and have perfect broadhead flight. The goal is to have as quiet of an arrow as possible while still remaining accurate. There’s a big difference in 3° of offset and .7° offset on the audible noise.

Accuracy of course is most important. So build an arrow around your broadhead and shooting abilities .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PurpleDriver]

So Sack,

What did you finally decide on? Just curious if you’ve learned anything in the quest for the perfect arrow.

 

[sacklunch]

I ended up shooting 2.5 deg LH after fletcing up multiples from 2 deg to 3.5 deg. Best arrow flight and groups in a measurable way, for my setup. Will rinse and repeat for BHs.

Edit: I'm bowing out of this thread. Thanks to those who've offered helpful insight.

 

[stanginthe11s]

see, told you 2* was good. so, no shoot off? man, I was ready for a road trip. I wasn't betting paychecks though, I know that'll be the day everything goes wrong.
on a more serious note, keep in mind any change to components or design will change the outcome.

 

[Marbles]

To be clear here, the OP was a simple question looking for any ACTUAL data on fletch offset. Lots of dudes spouting off because too many variables (didnt stop the industry from testing 20+ broadheads for penetration, at a single overall weight, despite all the variables in design, width, legnth, point type, bleeders/no bleeders, 3 blade, 2 blade...etc) The consensus was no, no data to hang your hat on, which would have been an acceptable answer, end of conversation. Others felt the need to lecture me on my form and my shooting experience without ever seeing me shoot (it's noted that nobody here claiming i "wasnt good enough to worry about it" and that i "should be at the range" actually posted up a target after all, despite the offer for a fair comp. But just goes to show, that there is no shortage of blowhard WKRs willing to pm you telling you how good they shoot a recurve bow and begging for me to listen to them, some even wanted to "bet me paychecks" while making excuses like "but I only shoot a stick bow, bring it, you've got nothing" etc...mind you, same dude has a picture of himself with a compound on his profile...only shoots a recurve huh, as if its a putdown to only shoot a compound. (you can't make this stuff up)

Hats off to those who actually posted helpful info, suggestions, for lack of any actual data. The common thread seemed to be tournament shooters and those with a pedigree from competition actually do think it's important and can make a measurable difference and worth investigating, seemingly regardless of experience level.

I ended up shooting 2.5 deg LH after fletcing up multiples from 2 deg to 3.5 deg. Best flight and groups in a measurable way, for my specific arrow. Will rinse and repeat for BHs.

Moral of the story, a few good dudes on RS have been there and done that and are willing to help...others have simply "beendare", or at least named themselves that, but prefer to do the latter.

Too bad the answer is buried at paragraph three as it is actually useful information.