Any houndsmen here?

[IDspud]

Thanks for the replies. Let me clear a few things up.

I decided before I got her I'm not messing with fox deer etc. I want to focus bear, cats, and coons. The reason I have been using rabbits is because a few people said it wont mess her up later, and they are the easiest thing to get ahold of here. I haven't been able to even find a roadkill coon to train her with. I don't care about running rabbits outside of training. I bought some cat scents that she has no interest in following from drags.

Good to hear that Walkers aren't really for rabbits. Hopefully that's why the live ones don't seem to interest her too much.

I'm not frustrated with her, just concerned that I'm on the right track. I'm really happy seeing her work my rabbit drags. I've had a few houndsmen (on this thread too) tell me the best way to train a new pup is by running it with an experienced dog. So if this guy is telling the truth that the Bluetick was treeing bear one year ago and is a great tracker, I figured it would be worth giving it a try. If he's lying or the dog has lost it I'm out no money and just have to deal with rehoming one or both (not three, I'm keeping mine regardless). This doesn't bother me too much.

Is the training age something that there are a million opinions on? The weather has been crap and I haven't been able to do anywhere near as much as I'd like. I'm worried I'm missing training at a critical age (She's now 6 months). I've watched videos and heard people say that they should be tracking at 3 months. Some are saying don't even start until they are 6-8 months? I wish I could find someone locally to help out but the most I've gotten is a few tips here and there. And they all seem to contradict each other lol.

 

[IDspud]

Also, is it common for hounds that are good at hunting to not be good with obedience, or is that a huge red flag? The two new ones seemed to not listen well.

 

[Batch]

Thanks for the replies. Let me clear a few things up.

I decided before I got her I'm not messing with fox deer etc. I want to focus bear, cats, and coons. The reason I have been using rabbits is because a few people said it wont mess her up later, and they are the easiest thing to get ahold of here. I haven't been able to even find a roadkill coon to train her with. I don't care about running rabbits outside of training. I bought some cat scents that she has no interest in following from drags.

Good to hear that Walkers aren't really for rabbits. Hopefully that's why the live ones don't seem to interest her too much.

I'm not frustrated with her, just concerned that I'm on the right track. I'm really happy seeing her work my rabbit drags. I've had a few houndsmen (on this thread too) tell me the best way to train a new pup is by running it with an experienced dog. So if this guy is telling the truth that the Bluetick was treeing bear one year ago and is a great tracker, I figured it would be worth giving it a try. If he's lying or the dog has lost it I'm out no money and just have to deal with rehoming one or both (not three, I'm keeping mine regardless). This doesn't bother me too much.

Is the training age something that there are a million opinions on? The weather has been crap and I haven't been able to do anywhere near as much as I'd like. I'm worried I'm missing training at a critical age (She's now 6 months). I've watched videos and heard people say that they should be tracking at 3 months. Some are saying don't even start until they are 6-8 months? I wish I could find someone locally to help out but the most I've gotten is a few tips here and there. And they all seem to contradict each other lol.

At 6 months old i wouldn't worry too much about wasting training time. they are still puppies let them be puppies. do some drags here and there, nothing super long or difficult. if rabbit is what you have for drags that's fine . you getting a puppy to learn how to use its nose and trail not necessarily on focusing on a specific animal. Work on obedience! nothing worse than chasing a dog around that won't come back when called or toned.

 

[IDspud]

At 6 months old i wouldn't worry too much about wasting training time. they are still puppies let them be puppies. do some drags here and there, nothing super long or difficult. if rabbit is what you have for drags that's fine . you getting a puppy to learn how to use its nose and trail not necessarily on focusing on a specific animal. Work on obedience! nothing worse than chasing a dog around that won't come back when called or toned.

She's been pretty great so far. One hit on the beeper and she comes flying back, even when she's 1,000 yards away out of sight. She can sit and stay great. Still working on laying down and not stealing food wrappers out of the trash.

I have taken her on tons of really long hikes in the mountains, desert, and brush. Plenty of exposures to smells and outside.

 

[Coldtrail]

I've found that it is far easier to train one pup than two, working properly with that one pup will make it all business with no distractions. I only mess with big and small cats so those are the only scents I ever put in front of them. Don't be in a hurry to get them excited, nothing wrong with getting some handle in them & see how that goes before you try waking them up on caged critters. My school of thought is they don't need to worry about the chase until they prove to me they won't be idiots in the yard or woods, usually at least 6mo depending on the dog. The technical end of training a pup to cold trail the scents you want is something I can't explain tapping keys, but putting the effort in to get them dotting actual tracks in the snow with their nose is worth far more that watching them bark a caged coon or using bottle scent. I don't think either one does anything for the dog...just makes us feel better about having the dog around. If the dog can't cold trail you can't hunt...period. In my opinion cat dogs need to have a different skill set than the hounds hunting other stuff. This means you take your first dog and polish it up to the best of it's ability & then figure out what it's lacking and buy your second dog to fill those gaps. Houndsmen tend to always be thinking they need more dogs instead of just getting a couple of the "right" dogs and as a result end up feeding multiple dogs and still not getting the job done.

At the risk of opening a can of worms, don't get hung up on breeds or bloodlines. There are champions and &hiteaters in all of them and the science of breeding & genetics is pretty complicated to do right. Most guys are just cranking out pups and just because one litter was a varsity squad doesn't mean the next one will be. Hound breeds are just coloring, it has nothing to do with their level of skill. Regardless of what you hear about X & X bloodline or breed being the best their is, I can guarantee there is a hunter out there somewhere with a cross of some line nobody ever heard of that will put it to shame. That hunter with the cross is spending his time in the woods and breeding for positive traits rather than trying to keep his kennel all the same color or continue to brag up a line that was good 20yrs ago.

It's also important with your own dogs, as well as ones you are looking to buy or somebody wants to get rid of that a good handler is a big part of the things that you need to turn out a good hound. That works both ways, you might have the best bred pup in the world & still screw it up being a bad handler or not devoting enough time to get that pup in the woods, the flip side is that you will hear about dogs that aren't worth a damn & a good handler gets them and they become legendary. Basically if you want an effective cat dog, you need to make it yourself & that is a lot of work but very rewarding in the end. I have rarely seen a true "Excellent cat dog" for sale, I have seen lots advertised........but I guess my definition of a good dog is different from what I see for sale. The real deal, do it all "excellent cat dogs" don't need to be pushed on the internet to find a home so be aware of that. Also, don't buy a cat dog from a fat man, you'll understand that more after having hounds for a while LOL. Good luck with your pup....

 

[Preston]

I've found that it is far easier to train one pup than two, working properly with that one pup will make it all business with no distractions. I only mess with big and small cats so those are the only scents I ever put in front of them. Don't be in a hurry to get them excited, nothing wrong with getting some handle in them & see how that goes before you try waking them up on caged critters. My school of thought is they don't need to worry about the chase until they prove to me they won't be idiots in the yard or woods, usually at least 6mo depending on the dog. The technical end of training a pup to cold trail the scents you want is something I can't explain tapping keys, but putting the effort in to get them dotting actual tracks in the snow with their nose is worth far more that watching them bark a caged coon or using bottle scent. I don't think either one does anything for the dog...just makes us feel better about having the dog around. If the dog can't cold trail you can't hunt...period. In my opinion cat dogs need to have a different skill set than the hounds hunting other stuff. This means you take your first dog and polish it up to the best of it's ability & then figure out what it's lacking and buy your second dog to fill those gaps. Houndsmen tend to always be thinking they need more dogs instead of just getting a couple of the "right" dogs and as a result end up feeding multiple dogs and still not getting the job done.

At the risk of opening a can of worms, don't get hung up on breeds or bloodlines. There are champions and &hiteaters in all of them and the science of breeding & genetics is pretty complicated to do right. Most guys are just cranking out pups and just because one litter was a varsity squad doesn't mean the next one will be. Hound breeds are just coloring, it has nothing to do with their level of skill. Regardless of what you hear about X & X bloodline or breed being the best their is, I can guarantee there is a hunter out there somewhere with a cross of some line nobody ever heard of that will put it to shame. That hunter with the cross is spending his time in the woods and breeding for positive traits rather than trying to keep his kennel all the same color or continue to brag up a line that was good 20yrs ago.

It's also important with your own dogs, as well as ones you are looking to buy or somebody wants to get rid of that a good handler is a big part of the things that you need to turn out a good hound. That works both ways, you might have the best bred pup in the world & still screw it up being a bad handler or not devoting enough time to get that pup in the woods, the flip side is that you will hear about dogs that aren't worth a damn & a good handler gets them and they become legendary. Basically if you want an effective cat dog, you need to make it yourself & that is a lot of work but very rewarding in the end. I have rarely seen a true "Excellent cat dog" for sale, I have seen lots advertised........but I guess my definition of a good dog is different from what I see for sale. The real deal, do it all "excellent cat dogs" don't need to be pushed on the internet to find a home so be aware of that. Also, don't buy a cat dog from a fat man, you'll understand that more after having hounds for a while LOL. Good luck with your pup....

This guy is barking up the right tree! Great post and spot on

 

[mnhoundman]

Pretty much all great advice, concentrate on one first. And I've never seen a cat or coyote dog chasing rabbits so I'd do the caged coon, but don't let it get bit because at that age it can scare them a bit too. And you'll either have to run cats or deer but not both! We train the dogs not to chase deer of course. And we run bear, cat, coyote, fox, and coon with the same hounds. Usually where our bobcats are there's not to many coyotes but it does happen if they jump a coyote the race is on! Lol

 

[mnhoundman]

Oh and about them listening, hahaha when there in hunt mode they usually won't come to you, but some are a lot more timid then others and will. But the Garmin training collars have been a life saver for sure!
On the wolves, we have had dogs killed by wolves. Usually 2 wolves won't bother but you get 4 or more and look out, don't matter how many dogs you have. When we hunt where wolves are we try to follow the dogs that seems to help. Walked in on a treed cat once, when we got there the wolves were there killing a dog! I hate um!!!

 

[Coldtrail]

Oh and about them listening, hahaha when there in hunt mode they usually won't come to you, but some are a lot more timid then others and will. But the Garmin training collars have been a life saver for sure!
On the wolves, we have had dogs killed by wolves. Usually 2 wolves won't bother but you get 4 or more and look out, don't matter how many dogs you have. When we hunt where wolves are we try to follow the dogs that seems to help. Walked in on a treed cat once, when we got there the wolves were there killing a dog! I hate um!!!

X2...if you hunt wolf country, you have GOT to be close to the dogs, wolves are sucker punchers, almost all of the dogs getting killed are getting it while looking up at the tree & sometimes while the owner is less than 100yrds away. Also, wolves throw as much or more scent than the stinkiest critters, it pays to hold a training session with your dogs every now and then when you find hot wolf tracks & explain that those are off limits

 

[Gutshot007]

Many years ago ran blueticks for coon. Out of the game now , but there was a guy named John Wick (not the assassin ). He wrote in hound magazines. I have his books WALK WITH WICK . He probably has forgotten more than most know. Probably a great resource.

 

[IDspud]

Thanks for the tips. I'm done with the rabbits. I just tried a drag with the cat scent for the first time in a month or two and she was ON it.

One thing I've noticed with her is that even though I expect to see her nose to ground sniffing the trail, she usually is hauling ass running the trail with her head up all the way too it. Unless she gets lost and doubles back to sniff the ground and find it again. Is this likely because I'm using too much scent on my drags and leaving a large trail of it that she can smell on the run?

As long as I'm not screwing myself by turning down a trained dog and can teach the pup solo, I think I'll skip the old blue tick.

 

[ADKHTR]

After owning and training hounds for the last 35 years here is my advice, you need to find a seasoned hound man local to you and ask him if you can tag along, bring a leash, listen and don’t talk constantly, and skip getting your own dogs until you have followed him around for a few years, you won’t like my advice but I’m being honest and I guarantee the other guys who I can tell are hound men replying to this thread know exactly what I’m talking about… you have no idea how many people over the years I have seen head down this same path just like your doing, I understand you have good intentions and maybe someday this will all work out but the odds of you getting a broke hound for free are like getting a Kentucky Derby winner from your local petting zoo, dog jockeys will tell you anything to make a sale, your an easy target and a great place for somebody to offload unfinished “projects”, I know my advice isn’t what you want to hear but trust me if your still doing this in say like 5 years you will understand, or there will be a Garmin Alpha in the classifieds and a walker broke from stealing things out of the trash can… Nobody on the internet can walk you through how to train a hound, it would be about like trying to perform open heart surgery on yourself after watching a youtube video.

 

[mnhoundman]

Very good advice, as for your dog not following on the track. If there's good sent they will run just down wind of the track, when the condition is right. And some days they can't smell a hot track for nothing. Really weird some day's. I like to have a trained dog before I get another so he get run with him and learn the ropes. Lots of things to learn that's for sure! And like said above, going with a local or someone with experience is a huge plus.

 

[KurtR]

This has been a fun read. Just being in the retriever world it’s cool hearing how other dogs are trained. I was going to get two red bones after watching where the red fern grows as a kid. Dad put a hard no on that one haha.

 

[jmez]

Called drifting a track when they run head up like that. Nothing wrong with that.

Discipline is the most important thing you can teach the dog at this age. Come when called, period, no matter what you are doing. This is the step most hounds never get. Brother and I have had coon hounds for years. All of our dogs can be called in, on or off a track. They come when called.

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[mnhoundman]

Called drifting a track when they run head up like that. Nothing wrong with that.

Discipline is the most important thing you can teach the dog at this age. Come when called, period, no matter what you are doing. This is the step most hounds never get. Brother and I have had coon hounds for years. All of our dogs can be called in, on or off a track. They come when called. .

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That's pretty impressive, most of ours won't call off unless it's dark or that time of day when scent gets bad, talking coyote hunting. The Garmin training collars really have made a difference, but before that it was tough to call them off a good track. But that's what there trained to do, some are just that committed and won't give up which is ok sometimes but a bitch other times!! Those blueticks can be stubborn!

 

[PathFinder]

Some of what you're doing is on the right track. Lots of exposure is just what young dogs need. Let them show you what they're ready for, don't expect too much early on. Two of my better young dogs didn't do anything until they were over a year old.
Definitely pass on those other dogs. That guy sounds like the typical dog salesman. If you're buying a used dog, it better come one of two ways. 1. From someone you've hunted with a lot and trust. 2. Under a tree after you've watched the dog hunt for no less than a day or two.

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[Coldtrail]

It's not too hard to get some discipline into a hound if you start young. I whistle train mine just like bird dogs & they know that no matter what is going on they need to head to the whistle, even if it's a hot race. I demand that from my dogs because of the rare emergency situation with wolves, traffic, shotgun wielding landowners etc. I have shock collars they wear for a month or two of training runs to reinforce any needed corrections, but once the hunting season starts they come off & get double collared with GPS and old school telemetry (I still have bad luck once and a while with Garmin dropping off).

Combination hunting, or using your dogs to hunt multiple species, is pretty common in the midwest. I prefer a known straight cat dog so try to avoid running mine with combination dogs, everybody is different.

If you plan to get into this heavy, budget for the inevitable vet bill, there are things you can do yourself but I'm coming out of a bad luck $5000 worth of vet bills season this yr and lots of gas money spent at $4 gal fuel in truck and snowmobile to look for tracks.

You can become a millionaire hunting hounds, just need to start as a billionaire

 

[bowieknife50]

Just keep working your pup all the time. Get a live critter in front of him so he can associate the smell with that critter. Start thinking of your time line as how many years will it be until I can catch my own game with my dogs, not how many weeks. I have a dog that didn't turn on until he was 2 and one that turned on when she was 9 months. Just keep hunting he will come around.

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