Any houndsmen here?

[IDspud]

I have some questions that I'm having trouble finding answers to.

I'm getting one or two Walkers around Christmas. Is getting a second one going to be very beneficial? I do worry about sending one off with a high wolf population.

I'm primarily getting them for lions and bear. Ideally I'd like them to run foxes, blood trail deer, and everything else. I'm guessing this isn't going to work and I have to choose? I know they'll run everything unless I break them of it. But I'm guessing if I have them do that while I'm out trying to trail lions I'm going to screw myself because they will be going after every deer trail as well?

 

[Wellsdw]

Biggest issue you will have is animal recovery is really I different discipline than running an animal. A recovery dog most work slower, in differentiating scents of a specific animal if that make sense. Also Most states require dogs to be leashed when used for recovery

 

[IDLassie]

Have you ever owned, trained and run hounds before? If so no problems if not a lot of problems.
Running 2 young dogs together with a green owner is going to cause you a lot of trouble with training.
You don't want your hounds to trail deer period! That makes for bad habits and it's illegal in Idaho to use dogs to trail shot deer (if I remember right). You don't want your dogs running fox either another bad habit.
If using for lions and bears that is the only thing you want your dogs to have on their minds.

Get one young dog and train it. After you get your dog trained and doing what you want and broke from running trash, ie deer, fox, coyotes etc. Then you could get another dog.

Unless your dog is already trained it seems like you're behind the eight ball. Should have gotten the dog this summer to train and learn.

Been there and done hound training and hunting.

 

[WeiserBucks]

A green houndsman with young dogs trying to hunt everything available is a recipe for disaster. Figure out exactly what game you want to hunt and hunt only those species. Using trying to train a bear/lion dog to blood trail deer will be an epic failure.

All of the top hound hunters I know don't hunt deer, elk ect. They're top dog hunters with excellent dogs because they dedicate every available minute of their lives to hound hunting, its a full time job if you're going to excel. Many hound hunters are divorced, between employment and flat broke because those aspects of their lives are less of a priority than the dogs. That was me before I traded hounds for a family.

99% of hound hunters that work 50+ hours a week, hunt deer, hunt elk, have a fishing boat, have 3 kids playing sports, a mortgage and 2 car payments have shit dogs and have a shitty hunt every time out because they can't devote enough time to have excellent dogs.

 

[Wrench]

Jdvangystal would be a solid guy to ask on cats.

 

[bowieknife50]

I hunt my dogs at least 2 days a week during training season and road them another 2 nights a week to keep them in shape. It's still not enough, they could be so much better if I hunted another 2 days a week but I chose to be ok with mediocre dogs to keep my faith, family, and business intact. I started with a puppy but didn't even really train him up alone because I hunt with a group. Most people buy an old finished dog and use him to train a puppy or two to start. Like the above said: if you want to be any good at any of it choose 1 thing and devote every spare second you have to it. An unfocused dog is an easily distracted dog. I will say now that my first pup is older I can start asking him to differentiate a few things but trust me you don't want anything to do with deer. Dogs that run deer will run them over anything else and deer are everywhere. Also if you're worried about wolves 1 more dog will make about zero difference.

Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk

 

[IDspud]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I had a feeling that would be an issue so I'll just stick to lions and maybe bears. FYI recovery dogs are legal here but it's not worth it if it's going to make the desired game harder to get.

As for 1 vs 2- The trainer said I would have a much easier time training two dogs over one. He said that one can help keep the other on track and help keep the trail going.

 

[loganwayne]

Honestly your best bet is to find a houndsman in your area that’s willing to help you and let your dog run with his pack. Get ONE dog and get it trained. Once you have a trained dog it will teach a lot to a young pup being around it in the woods but two young dogs full of piss and vinegar and not a clue what they are doing is gonna leave you pissed all the time because they don’t know what to do besides run in every direction.

 

[Preston]

I’ve started several pups singularly with mixed success. I would recommend starting with one pup, a good Garmin tracking collar, and start training with a caged coon at 6-8 months in age, and then in a few weeks turn a wet coon lose in a timbered area and let the pup bay it before turning it lose. Once he is beginning to tree a easy released coon I put out coon feeders in prime coon spots and let the dog strike and run coons on their own.
Before all this a young dog needs to have some obedience training and know commands prior to setting out tracks or hunting. You will have deer races and they need to be broke from running trash, hunting in snow will help you sort out what they are chasing.
Once a dog can trail/tree a coon I would start walking out cat tracks in the snow with your hound on a lease, and watch his reaction. Once he starts getting gamey and barking on track I will turn him lose and let him run it. When he loses the track I will try to help him get it going again, and continue walking out tracks, until he is able to get a bobcat/lion jumped and either have a race or possibly get it up a tree.

Everyone needs one Walker in there life, I will never personally have another one. You have to get a pup from a good hunting background in the territory/region you hunt (dry ground,snow). A lot of houndsmen are like horse traders, always trading/selling for the perfect type hound, which doesn’t exist. Secondly, no experienced houndsmen is going to invite you into their hunting spot, and let you work a pup with their hounds.

My great uncle taught me a lot about running hounds but you will learn more by spending time with a dog or two and walking out tracks. I learned more from my failures. I started a Leopard hound pup six years ago and didn’t really have anyone to show me the ropes in western hunting. He only treed a handful of lions, even fewer bobcats, but bunches of coon/squirrel. And he died at 5.

I don’t agree with the comment that good houndsmen doesn’t hunt other game. Cat season may only last 2-3 months, and I’m always scouting out cat tracks when I’m elk/deer hunting. I do agree that it is a year around commitment and most people don’t want to spend the time training a hound. My dogs are part of my family and they go with walks with us daily off leash. I’ve been so pissed before, and not every dog will make a tree dog. Lastly, I’d stay away from a Walker unless you get to hunt with the dogs owners and watch them tree game. I personally like mixed breeds from good hunters. I’m still learning and it s a incredible difficult type of hunting starting one your own. It makes hunting trophy bull elk look easy. Best of luck.

 

[IDspud]

Honestly your best bet is to find a houndsman in your area that’s willing to help you and let your dog run with his pack. Get ONE dog and get it trained. Once you have a trained dog it will teach a lot to a young pup being around it in the woods but two young dogs full of piss and vinegar and not a clue what they are doing is gonna leave you pissed all the time because they don’t know what to do besides run in every direction.

I really only want one dog to begin with. The only reason I considered it was because he said it would be easier (and cheaper). If that’s not true, and one dog is enough to start treeing lions then that will be easier.

 

[IDspud]

I’ve started several pups singularly with mixed success. I would recommend starting with one pup, a good Garmin tracking collar, and start training with a caged coon at 6-8 months in age, and then in a few weeks turn a wet coon lose in a timbered area and let the pup bay it before turning it lose. Once he is beginning to tree a easy released coon I put out coon feeders in prime coon spots and let the dog strike and run coons on their own.
Before all this a young dog needs to have some obedience training and know commands prior to setting out tracks or hunting. You will have deer races and they need to be broke from running trash, hunting in snow will help you sort out what they are chasing.
Once a dog can trail/tree a coon I would start walking out cat tracks in the snow with your hound on a lease, and watch his reaction. Once he starts getting gamey and barking on track I will turn him lose and let him run it. When he loses the track I will try to help him get it going again, and continue walking out tracks, until he is able to get a bobcat/lion jumped and either have a race or possibly get it up a tree.

Everyone needs one Walker in there life, I will never personally have another one. You have to get a pup from a good hunting background in the territory/region you hunt (dry ground,snow). A lot of houndsmen are like horse traders, always trading/selling for the perfect type hound, which doesn’t exist. Secondly, no experienced houndsmen is going to invite you into their hunting spot, and let you work a pup with their hounds.

My great uncle taught me a lot about running hounds but you will learn more by spending time with a dog or two and walking out tracks. I learned more from my failures. I started a Leopard hound pup six years ago and didn’t really have anyone to show me the ropes in western hunting. He only treed a handful of lions, even fewer bobcats, but bunches of coon/squirrel. And he died at 5.

I don’t agree with the comment that good houndsmen doesn’t hunt other game. Cat season may only last 2-3 months, and I’m always scouting out cat tracks when I’m elk/deer hunting. I do agree that it is a year around commitment and most people don’t want to spend the time training a hound. My dogs are part of my family and they go with walks with us daily off leash. I’ve been so pissed before, and not every dog will make a tree dog. Lastly, I’d stay away from a Walker unless you get to hunt with the dogs owners and watch them tree game. I personally like mixed breeds from good hunters. I’m still learning and it s a incredible difficult type of hunting starting one your own. It makes hunting trophy bull elk look easy. Best of luck.

Thanks for the reply. I’m definitely getting a Garman alpha immediately.

i’m getting him at the end of the hunting season so I will have plenty of time over the winter and spring to get him well trained with basic obedience.

I won’t get to interact personally with the dogs or breeder/trainer he’s coming from. I know they’ve been doing it for decades and still do competitions with some of them. Since he’s coming from the girlfriends family I trust them with what they say about their lineage.

 

[Preston]

Thanks for the reply. I’m definitely getting a Garman alpha immediately.

i’m getting him at the end of the hunting season so I will have plenty of time over the winter and spring to get him well trained with basic obedience.

I won’t get to interact personally with the dogs or breeder/trainer he’s coming from. I know they’ve been doing it for decades and still do competitions with some of them. Since he’s coming from the girlfriends family I trust them with what they say about their lineage.

Sounds good. You will have fun. I’m not getting a pup until mid November myself, so we both have a year to train. Fall/winter is great time to get a pup.

 

[bowieknife50]

I see you mentioned competition..... what kind of competition? Competition coon hounds at and hunt very different from dogs that go do it every day in the woods. Not saying it's not good and you don't make a dog from that line but it's different.

Sent from my SM-G981V using Tapatalk

 

[IDspud]

Ended up getting a 4 month old TWC Jan 1st. Training has been slow and a struggle so far. I have her reliable tracking scent drags like a champion when I use a whole dead rabbit carcass. But she hasn't tracked or treed anything alive. I've had rabbits run in front of her, and when I put her on it's trail she wonders off.

I found someone rehoming a "fully trained" bluetick and a started TWC. I'm thinking of getting them to help get my pup started but I'm skeptical about taking them. According to him he bought the Bluetick for over $3000 fully trained on coon, bobcat, mountain lions, and bear. Neither has worked in over a year but the last hunt they both treed a bear in the training season. They said they realized they don't have the time to work them anymore and they don't want them stuck in a yard until they die, so they are trying to find a good home for them.


The Bluetick is 7 and the TWC is 2. I realize the Bluetick is probably about at the end of being useful but I'm thinking it may be worth it to get the two younger pups started? They are both fat and out of shape. Bad idea? Or great opportunity to (possibly) get a legit trained dog to get the others started?

 

[PoorMansWrangler]

Honestly, a TWC is the wrong tool for the job if you want it to run rabbits. That is like using a hammer to try and pound in a screw. Put that pup on a caged coon, or use a dead coon as a drag and it may wake it up. The TWC is bread to tree, whether its a coon, bear, lion, or bobcat, its not going to want to mess around with a rabbit,

As for getting another dog, be careful you may be getting another persons problem dogs they don't want to deal with. Personally, I would just focus on getting your current pup trained before getting more dogs. Depending on how the new dogs are, it may teach bad habits etc to your young dog. It shouldn't take much to get it started, they it is just cleaning up

 

[TSAMP]

Sounds to me like you think adding another dog will somehow correct or ease your current frustrations. I think that's the wrong mindset and may have you rehoming 3 dogs. You are a novice. I'd stick with your 1 dog and keep working at it and learning.

 

[loganwayne]

some people here may not agree with me but 4 months is still pretty young. i wouldn't expect much or really push alot of training for another couple months. right now you need to get that pup on different scents out in the world and let it build some confidence in itself. introduce it to a cage coon from a distance and see what it does. you dont wanna throw a coon in a cage right up on a young pup they can still get their hands out and grab a pup.

 

[MallardSX2]

Your going to need to make your mind up.

Are you going to run foxes or track deer?

Because IMHO after 35 years of running hounds your going to need to choose....or your going to have a miserable time ahead of you...

 

[Preston]

It’s almost impossible to buy a full trained hound for coon, bobcat, and/or lion for 2000k. It would cost more like $7000, and no one would be willing to part with a fully trained hound unless they were going through a divorce, bankruptcy, family problems, etc. You friend that has the Bluetick May have been fleeced by the other hound salesman. It would add to your problems by adding two other hounds.

You need to remember your 7-8 mont Walker h is too young to be hunting or treeing much of anything and you stand a good chance of ruining him by pressure him too much. I have a 8 month old Leopard Hound that I’m training and all I’m doing is obedience training, making sure he minds/handles good, and letting him be a pup. I will not start him on a caged coon until this summer. And hunt him solo on coons through the summer and fall, and starting walking out tracks on lions and/or bobcats this next December. Your Walker has the mental power of a 5-7 year little kids. I’ve seen guys pack up a bunch of untrained hounds and it will turn you against the sport.

Get one good pup from good hunting parents and expose him to hunting at 8-12 months old, and don’t expect success overnight. It took me 2-3 seasons before my last hound was treeing and tracking very consistent. Best of luck and PM me with any other questions.

 

[Preston]

Secondly, don’t use dead rabbits for drags, unless you want a rabbit/hare hound. Fresh dead coons, or wet live ones as the pup gets older. You can ruin a hound by letting him get turned up by a nasty coon. Best of luck