Any Boiler Techs Out There?

[Stearinlys]

Hey everyone,

I've got an older house ('95), and it has in floor heating in the basement. Just this year I've been dealing with pressure loss and the bleeder seems to be working overtime, it hisses a lot more than usual. Also, when it fires up you can hear it upstairs, and if you're in the room you can a feel a significant wave of air pressure lol, but its not everytime and it varies from light up to light up.

I've put my mechanic stethoscope up to it and I don't hear any cavitation in the pump, and it's set to high because I thought it was either introducing air through cavitation, or not flowing the fluid enough to cool the boiler down. It usually runs at 80 degress C when running, and at rest the pressure was set to 18 psi. Its now sitting at 5. It also looks like there's a fair amount of rust in the system due to the colour of the fluid that is escaping the bleeder.

Would love some input into how to mitigate the lighting issue, and potentially some stop gap solutions to the pressure loss issue. I am looking into replacing the system, but it later rather than sooner. Thanks!

 

[gbflyer]

Do you get it serviced regularly? Those should be looked at every couple of years by someone who is savvy. We use boilers a lot, fuel oil though not LP/NG. I am not a tech but I sort of know enough to get into a little trouble. Haha.

There should be a regulator in there hooked to your tap water supply for the make up water that keeps everything pressurized. Ours has a little bale/handle on top of it that you can push one way or the other to activate it.

Pressure on:

Pressure off:

Do you see that anywhere and can you verify that it’s working/not working? Those pressure/temp gauges on the boiler go bad, not a very good indicator.

 

[Dos Perros]

Maybe it's the orientation of the picture, but it appears that pump is installed incorrectly. It should be rotated 90 degrees such that the weight of the rotor isn't hanging like that. That would cause a premature failure of the pump. Usually when they fail they just flat out stop working, seize up, but it's possible it could run at reduced performance for some time.

Nevermind, it's installed mostly correctly. Ideally you would rotate the electrical box so that it's on the side of the motor housing. That somewhat alleviates heat from pooling up in the box. Lower concern though than my original post.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

It likely could use a system flushing, plus you need a new auto air vent, and there should be a shut off valve below the vent. After you fill the system shut off valve and drain air vent. Is there also one at the highest point in the system.

 

[Stearinlys]

Do you get it serviced regularly? Those should be looked at every couple of years by someone who is savvy. We use boilers a lot, fuel oil though not LP/NG. I am not a tech but I sort of know enough to get into a little trouble. Haha.

There should be a regulator in there hooked to your tap water supply for the make up water that keeps everything pressurized. Ours has a little bale/handle on top of it that you can push one way or the other to activate it.

Pressure on:

Pressure off:

Do you see that anywhere and can you verify that it’s working/not working? Those pressure/temp gauges on the boiler go bad, not a very good indicator.

I just bought the place, so I haven't. But I had a guy come out and look at it, and take care of a few issues while he was looking at something else. This doesn't have a make up water system. It's sealed.

 

[Stearinlys]

It likely could use a system flushing, plus you need a new auto air vent, and there should be a shut off valve below the vent. After you fill the system shut off valve and drain air vent. Is there also one at the highest point in the system.

Agreed, this bleeder is brand new. It's only been on there for a couple of months

 

[GSPHUNTER]

Is there a expansion tank on the system?

 

[Legend]

I just bought the place, so I haven't. But I had a guy come out and look at it, and take care of a few issues while he was looking at something else. This doesn't have a make up water system. It's sealed.

Nothing is perfectly sealed. I would think adding a makeup waterline would be a good idea. Or manually doing it at least every season. Probably low on fluid now since you hearing hissing sounds (which is fluid loss).

 

[gbflyer]

I just bought the place, so I haven't. But I had a guy come out and look at it, and take care of a few issues while he was looking at something else. This doesn't have a make up water system. It's sealed.

Ok. The water is getting oxygenated somewhere if it’s turning red. A sealed system won’t let air in and the water will get a clear/blackish look to it after the O2 gets out. I guess it could be glycol as well, seems like that might make better sense if it’s sealed. We have backed water in and pressurized them with a 110v liquid pump.


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[Stearinlys]

Is there a expansion tank on the system?

Yessir

 

[Stearinlys]

Ok. The water is getting oxygenated somewhere if it’s turning red. A sealed system won’t let air in and the water will get a clear/blackish look to it after the O2 gets out. I guess it could be glycol as well, seems like that might make better sense if it’s sealed. We have backed water in and pressurized them with a 110v liquid pump.


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I've used the house's water system to fill the in floor system back up and get the pressure back up to snuff, so that may have contributed as well I guess?

 

[Stearinlys]

Maybe it's the orientation of the picture, but it appears that pump is installed incorrectly. It should be rotated 90 degrees such that the weight of the rotor isn't hanging like that. That would cause a premature failure of the pump. Usually when they fail they just flat out stop working, seize up, but it's possible it could run at reduced performance for some time.

Nevermind, it's installed mostly correctly. Ideally you would rotate the electrical box so that it's on the side of the motor housing. That somewhat alleviates heat from pooling up in the box. Lower concern though than my original post.

That's interesting. Are you thinking thermal breakdown of some sort then?

 

[Jstumbaugh]

Definitely change that can vent and confirm the bladder in the expansion tank is not ruptured. You are getting air in/leaking water somewhere. How long does it take to lose pressure once filled to 18psi? Does your relief valve drip? Also, the boiler should operate at 80 C. Do you have a mixing valve to temper the supply down to the infloor/radiant heat? That should be roughly 35C/ 90-95 deg F.

 

[Dos Perros]

That's interesting. Are you thinking thermal breakdown of some sort then?

That's what they say. Could cause the capacitor to fail prematurely. If that happened I don't think the pump would run at all, tho, so unlikely your problem here.

https://api.grundfos.com/literature/Grundfosliterature-5935081.pdf

Sometimes scale can build up and get between the rotor and stator and slow them down, that would cause performance decrease for sure.

5 psi meets minimum inlet pressure requirements (page 6), but more pressure won't hurt, recommend going higher if possible.

 

[Stearinlys]

Definitely change that can vent and confirm the bladder in the expansion tank is not ruptured. You are getting air in/leaking water somewhere. How long does it take to lose pressure once filled to 18psi?

About 3-4 weeks

Does your relief valve drip? Also, the boiler should operate at 80 C. Do you have a mixing valve to temper the supply down to the infloor/radiant heat? That should be roughly 35C/ 90-95 deg F.

A mixing valve? I don't believe so, just those 2 flow switches and control the West/East zones

 

[GSPHUNTER]

I have not read all the post, but as I mentioned in a thread about a guy having A/C problems, trouble shooting an issue over the internet has a very low success rate. I know you can get various ideas about what might be wrong, and one may solve the problem, but not likely. I did note you mention the auto air vent is only couple months old, but it has signs of leakage and deposit build up on it. Good luck solving you issue. don't be surprised if you don't end up have a tech come out, but even then, the quality of help these days is iffy at best.

 

[Stearinlys]

I have not read all the post, but as I mentioned in a thread about a guy having A/C problems, trouble shooting an issue over the internet has a very low success rate. I know you can get various ideas about what might be wrong, and one may solve the problem, but not likely. I did note you mention the auto air vent is only couple months old, but it has signs of leakage and deposit build up on it. Good luck solving you issue. don't be surprised if you don't end up have a tech come out, but even then, the quality of help these days is iffy at best.

For sure! I came into this expecting those things. I'm an Auto Mechanic, so I'm fully aware of how the "Help me fix my car over the phone" thing goes lol. I'm a pretty good friend of a guy out here who is a boiler specialist and he's going to come out in the spring once I can shut it down for the season. He mentioned the burner probably needs a cleaning and that's whats causing the "WOOF", but that,s not something I want to fumble around and try to figure out myself. Especially since the gas valve needs to be disconnected.

I just figured I'd throw it out in case someone else has run into the same things and could share some potential insights, which I think has happened.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

For sure! I came into this expecting those things. I'm an Auto Mechanic, so I'm fully aware of how the "Help me fix my car over the phone" thing goes lol. I'm a pretty good friend of a guy out here who is a boiler specialist and he's going to come out in the spring once I can shut it down for the season. He mentioned the burner probably needs a cleaning and that's whats causing the "WOOF", but that,s not something I want to fumble around and try to figure out myself. Especially since the gas valve needs to be disconnected.

I just figured I'd throw it out in case someone else has run into the same things and could share some potential insights, which I think has happened.

I would have a tendency to agree with your friend on the cause of the WOOF sound. I think would have that looked at ASAP. JMHO on the issue.

 

[Stearinlys]

I would have a tendency to agree with your friend on the cause of the WOOF sound. I think would have that looked at ASAP. JMHO on the issue.

Agreed, he's pretty busy for the time being. But it's supposed to warm up here in the next couple of weeks, so I might be able to get him in sooner than later