Any 7mm Sherman short users out there??

[coues craze]

So I am piecing together a new build to work on this summer and am interested to hear opinions on the 7ss vs 7 SAUM vs 7 wsm. This will be a short action hunting rifle, carbon barrel 24”, and looking to push the 175/180 weight bullets. Anyone have experience with similar setups in the 3 calibers above that can weigh in on pros, cons, and ballistics you were able to achieve.

 

[deadwolf]

If you’re gonna run 180s I would build on a medium


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[ckleeves]

I almost did a short action 7mm recently then just decided to do a 6.5 saum.
My thoughts were the brass and coal length kill the 7wsm for me in a short action. If brass wasn’t a issue and you were building on a medium-ish action It’s not a bad choice.

The saum is easy as far as brass and dies go. Think about your throating/magazine length in a short action before you jump into a reamer. You will be probably have to seat 180’s deeper then ideal and leave some performance on the table (don’t know exactly what action you have)

I haven’t joined the SS cult but it is an interesting cartridge. Fits a SA the best out of the bunch, becoming more popular, but I don’t think I would bet the farm on getting some of the velocity’s that guys claim. Not knocking it in anyway, just a guess. I could be wrong, no personal experience with it.


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[dirtytough]

I have a 7 SS. I was shooting the 180 eld m right at 3k fps. From memory coal was 2.89. I can double check my notes on that.

If going short action it’s hard to beat the SS if you don’t mind spending a little more.

I just got a 6.5 SS. Haven’t done any development yet on it. Weather has been fairly windy most days. Pretty excited about it though.

 

[Jakeweb09]

I was considering going ss on a new build I’m working on but my smith ( not gonna name names but a very reputable builder) strongly suggested sticking with the saum. I think his words were “steer very clear of the Sherman snake oil”. I’ve never shot one and they sound pretty amazing, but I trust his opinion. Says he’s built many SAUMs on short actions that perform amazingly. That’s the route I’m going as we speak.

 

[brocksw]

I built a 7 sherman max on a tikka. As said above, If you want to run heavy cup and core I would run a 7 max on a medium action not the sherman short on a short action. If you want to run the 195s or really long copper I would have your Smith put some extra free bore in... Maybe 40 thou.

Good brass for the 7 saum isn't cheap and it can be fired accurately in a 7 max just like a lot of the ackleys. Then when you're done you have fireformed max brass. Hornady dies from sherman will run you 175.

My goal was a little different. I wanted to run a short barrel with a suppressor in light rifle so I was willing to give up some speed. But a lot of the really high speeds you see talked about with the heavies are using vv n570 which isn't temp stable and is hard to get. Rl 26 is another popular one... Super hard to find most of the time. The extreme line from hodgdon wont give you the speeds that the Alliant and VV high energy powders will produce so keep that in mind and set your expectations accordingly.

Personally if you're gonna have a rifle built... I think it makes more sense to build a sherman than a saum. Super efficient, more powder=more speed, decent barrel life, less recoil than my 7 Rem mag, and if you're already paying a Smith why not... If you can find a factory 7 saum that's obviously more cost effective, just lacking a little in performance.

As an example... I'm shooting copper 140 class in a short barrel at the speeds most guys in a 7 saum shoot cup and core in a 24" and I haven't even had a chance to try that many powders yet.

 

[wildwilderness]

I have a 7saum. With any the extended mag is a must. I seat most my loads around 2.990 and do ok with 180 eldm. I hit pressure just above 2800fps. 24” barrel. The 162s work great.

The SS is like a Ackley and will get you 100 fps +. Some of the velocities seem really high, and can only be achieved with high pressures (basic physics). The SS cases are designed for higher pressure and probably won’t show the signs as early. So if you want something simple stick with the SAUM, if you want performance go SS but more work and expense.

 

[brocksw]

I have a 7saum. With any the extended mag is a must. I seat most my loads around 2.990 and do ok with 180 eldm. I hit pressure just above 2800fps. The SS is like a Ackley and will get you 100 fps +. Some of the velocities seem really high, and can only be achieved with high pressures (basic physics). The SS cases are designed for higher pressure and probably won’t show the signs as early. So if you want something simple stick with the SAUM, if you want performance go SS but more work and expense.

That's a pretty good summary. Kind of a cost benefit analysis. There's exceptions... Some guys do really well with their saums.... You could get a slow barrel with your sherman. A lot of guys reported problems getting to 3200 with cup and core in a 22" saum because of pressure. I got to 3198 in a copper 140 on the very first powder I tried. When I ran the cost benefit I was paying a little extra for dies and the reamer rental. Everything else was pretty much a wash except for the time fireforming. Whens it's over I'm hoping to run a .600+ BC copper bullet around 3200 fps out of a 22" barrel. My math told me the sherman was the best chance to get there. But I'm sure some 7 saums have done it.

 

[coues craze]

I have a 7saum. With any the extended mag is a must. I seat most my loads around 2.990 and do ok with 180 eldm. I hit pressure just above 2800fps. 24” barrel. The 162s work great.

The SS is like a Ackley and will get you 100 fps +. Some of the velocities seem really high, and can only be achieved with high pressures (basic physics). The SS cases are designed for higher pressure and probably won’t show the signs as early. So if you want something simple stick with the SAUM, if you want performance go SS but more work and expense.

what powder and velocity are you running with the 162’s ?

 

[coues craze]

I was considering going ss on a new build I’m working on but my smith ( not gonna name names but a very reputable builder) strongly suggested sticking with the saum. I think his words were “steer very clear of the Sherman snake oil”. I’ve never shot one and they sound pretty amazing, but I trust his opinion. Says he’s built many SAUMs on short actions that perform amazingly. That’s the route I’m going as we speak.

Are you building on short, med, or long action?

 

[N2TRKYS]

I’ve got a Remington Model Seven SS in 7 SAUM and love that rifle/cartridge combo. I’m getting 2950(Accubonds) and 2980(Partitions) fps out of the factory 22” barrel. Both of them are seated at 2.80”.

 

[Jakeweb09]

Are you building on short, med, or long action?

I’m using a Stiller short action


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[coues craze]

I’ve got a Remington Model Seven SS in 7 SAUM and love that rifle/cartridge combo. I’m getting 2950(Accubonds) and 2980(Partitions) fps out of the factory 22” barrel. Both of them are seated at 2.80”.

150 or 160 weight bullets?

 

[N2TRKYS]

150 or 160 weight bullets?

160s.

 

[wildwilderness]

what powder and velocity are you running with the 162’s ?

My accuracy load is with 59.1gr H4831 162 eldm 2900 fps cci 250, COL 2.950” 24” barrel

Is that a rule violation?

 

[duckhunter175]

I have a 7 SS. I was shooting the 180 eld m right at 3k fps. From memory coal was 2.89. I can double check my notes on that.

If going short action it’s hard to beat the SS if you don’t mind spending a little more.

I just got a 6.5 SS. Haven’t done any development yet on it. Weather has been fairly windy most days. Pretty excited about it though.

What was your barrel length and what powder??

 

[hereinaz]

I run a 26" proof in 7ss with Rich's brass. 60.5 of RL 26 and 180 vld suppressed, I am at 3060 fps.

Nucleus short action.

 

[TwoSlaps4U]

I built a 7 sherman max on a tikka. As said above, If you want to run heavy cup and core I would run a 7 max on a medium action not the sherman short on a short action. If you want to run the 195s or really long copper I would have your Smith put some extra free bore in... Maybe 40 thou.

Good brass for the 7 saum isn't cheap and it can be fired accurately in a 7 max just like a lot of the ackleys. Then when you're done you have fireformed max brass. Hornady dies from sherman will run you 175.

My goal was a little different. I wanted to run a short barrel with a suppressor in light rifle so I was willing to give up some speed. But a lot of the really high speeds you see talked about with the heavies are using vv n570 which isn't temp stable and is hard to get. Rl 26 is another popular one... Super hard to find most of the time. The extreme line from hodgdon wont give you the speeds that the Alliant and VV high energy powders will produce so keep that in mind and set your expectations accordingly.

Personally if you're gonna have a rifle built... I think it makes more sense to build a sherman than a saum. Super efficient, more powder=more speed, decent barrel life, less recoil than my 7 Rem mag, and if you're already paying a Smith why not... If you can find a factory 7 saum that's obviously more cost effective, just lacking a little in performance.

As an example... I'm shooting copper 140 class in a short barrel at the speeds most guys in a 7 saum shoot cup and core in a 24" and I haven't even had a chance to try that many powders yet.

Leaning towards following your example here with similar goals. i.e. hunting suppressed. Do you happen to have a detailed build? I'm only just breaching into the realm of custom and not exactly sure where to start.

 

[Article 4]

Have built and run a lot of Ferrari style rounds, which is where I place the Shermans. They have their place and its a cool idea, if you can deal with the idiosyncrasies for all the extra speed and are dead set on getting absolutely everything you can out of a "factory" supported round, send it!

If not, there are a ton of high horsepower rounds out there that will do close to that without having to spend the time and $$$ on the Ferrari.

Am a huge fan of the SAUMs and don't run the 7 but do run a 6.5 GAP 4S which is based on the 300 SAUM and is the parent idea to the 6.5 PRC. In the 6.5 specifically, I run 140 Bergers at 3160 which is near the top of the ladder - 61.9 gr H1000 - 24" Bart Carbon 8 twist bbl

Amazing performance and I built it to hunt and not as a target rifle. According to GA Precision, that round is good for 2500 shots in the Bart bbl - maybe not in full turbo mode at 3160 - time will tell

 

[rootacres]

I have owned both a 7 WSM and 7 SAUM. I too wanted to stick to a short action. The WSM will likely run into magbox length issues. I learned this one the hard way. My 7 SAUM with a Hawkins hunter mag I can load out to 2.955". With 168 VLDs Im loading around 2.900". The velocity difference is negligible. Mine were basically the same.

* make sure your action can handle the longer lengths. I had to have my Origin feed ramp notched.