Another goat bullet selection/shot placement thread

[Antares]

Hi All,

First off, I know this has been discussed ad nauseam and that this is some serious off-season, navel-gazing type sh*t, but indulge me anyway.

Scenario:
You're mountain goat hunting with a 20" .308 Win
(Assume all shots will be inside 300 yards, wind is negligible, elevation will be dialed).

Bullets:
150 gr TTSX or
178 gr ELD-X
(Assume both have a 2600-fps MV.)

Shot placement:
High shoulder or
Behind shoulder
(Assume animal is standing broadside.)

So which which bullet and which shot placement are you choosing and why? For the sake of discussion, please stick to the bullets and shot placements offered. Those are the bullets I shoot and those are the shot placements I'm comfortable with (i.e., don't suggest a 165 gr Accubond neck shot or something like that).

Thanks!

Here's a pic from yesterday for your troubles. Goats are over 2 miles away. Taken through my Kowa 554.

 

[ColeyG]

The bigger the better.

Goats don't die easily. Of the three I've been in on, only one died fairly quickly, and it was a small to medium sized nanny. The other two were big billies. One soaked up three 180gr corelokts in the boiler room and was still dragging himself around on his front legs for a while trying to end up over the nearest cliff.

The other took a 200gr ELD-X through the boiler room from 17 yards, fell off of a 600' cliff and landed in a pile at the bottom, and then had to get shot 4 more times at point blank range with a .44 mag shooting 310gr +P+ cast rounds before it was done. A horrific experience for all involved to say the least.

The amount and density of muscle and bone in the shoulder of a big billy, I think, would make it less than ideal for a shot placement choice. Even after you explode their heart and lungs, they can still have a lot of fight left in them.

 

[Antares]

@ColeyG Agreed. Goats are tough. With that said, what would you choose given the options I laid out?

 

[SDHNTR]

Barnes and break the shoulders

 

[ColeyG]

@ColeyG Agreed. Goats are tough. With that said, what would you choose given the options I laid out?

178gr ELD-X

 

[Antares]

178gr ELD-X

On the shoulder or behind?

 

[AK Troutbum]

Goats are tough critters indeed, but I’ve never had one go further than a few feet after being shot. This one was killed at about 230 yards, using something similar to what you’re describing (18” .308, and 150gr. factory TTSX bullet). He went all of about two or three steps. The shot was just behind his right shoulder, quartering away, and the bullet settled just under the skin of his left shoulder. After cleaning the bullet up I reweighed it at just over 148gr.

 

[Antares]

Goats are tough critters indeed, but I’ve never had one go further than a few feet after being shot. This one was killed at about 230 yards, using something similar to what you’re describing (18” .308, and 150gr. factory TTSX bullet). He went all of about two or three steps. The shot was just behind his right shoulder, quartering away, and the bullet settled just under the skin of his left shoulder. After cleaning the bullet up I reweighed it at just over 148gr.

Heck yeah. Great photo. Beautiful goat. I remember seeing that pic on another thread here. I love the south end.

 

[Decker9]

None matters as much as where they goat is located. A bad spot, no bullet will make it better.

I personally prefer hard bullets on goats, also prefer angled shots to try and hit vitals and bone in the first shot. Don’t take your eye out of the sights until your magazine is empty.

 

[S-3 ranch]

No goats around here, but aoudad require being broken down, a tsx,ttsx , accubond, nosler partitions = good medicine for breaking bone and anchor them , Mt goats probably the same

 

[Mtncowboy]

I have seen a handful of goats hit with eldx and it worked great. Some shots went through both shoulders and others were right behind the shoulder and each resulted in a dead goat. I guess if I had to choose I would go eldx through both shoulders, but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a barnes there either. I would think the bullet would punch a hole through the shoulder and then destroy everything in the boiler room and out the other side. I wish I was hunting goats right now!

 

[Ranger2co]

Goats are tough critters indeed, but I’ve never had one go further than a few feet after being shot. This one was killed at about 230 yards, using something similar to what you’re describing (18” .308, and 150gr. factory TTSX bullet). He went all of about two or three steps. The shot was just behind his right shoulder, quartering away, and the bullet settled just under the skin of his left shoulder. After cleaning the bullet up I reweighed it at just over 148gr.

Your hunt summed up in one amazing photo. Congrats.

 

[Antares]

Small sample size obviously, but I find it interesting that there's a split opinion on two bullets that are essentially at opposites ends of the hardness spectrum. My gun shoots both loads equally well. I'm leaning towards the TTSX even though it's got a BC similar to a loaf of bread.

 

[Mark at EXO]

Small sample size obviously, but I find it interesting that there's a split opinion on two bullets that are essentially at opposites ends of the hardness spectrum. My gun shoots both loads equally well. I'm leaning towards the TTSX even though it's got a BC similar to a loaf of bread.

I have talked with a lot of guides/outfitters and hunters with mtn goat experience. There's certainly no concesus on what style of bullet is best for goats; there are a lot of strong opinions though. Continue to do your research, understand the typical/likely shot presentation/distance for the area you'll be hunting in, and then make a decision that you can be confident with.

I've received strong recommendations on everything from Berger target bullets to solid monos. I think I've settled on Accubonds for my goat hunt this fall.

 

[LIK2HNT]

I am no Mtn Goat expert. Shot mine last year in Colorado at 12,500 foot elevation and 258 yards away at a very steep uphill shot. 270 WSM Federal Premium w/ 140 gr Accubnd. One shot and he dropped in his tracked. Tumbled down about 50 yards towards me and was stopped by a large rock. Picture shows exit wound. Very slight facing away shot. Aimed for heart up through high opposite shoulder.

 

[Antares]

I am no Mtn Goat expert. Shot mine last year in Colorado at 12,500 foot elevation and 258 yards away at a very steep uphill shot. 270 WSM Federal Premium w/ 140 gr Accubnd. One shot and he dropped in his tracked. Tumbled down about 50 yards towards me and was stopped by a large rock. Picture shows exit wound. Very slight facing away shot. Aimed for heart up through high opposite shoulder.
View attachment 409036

Which of the bullets and shot placement option I laid out would you choose?

 

[LIK2HNT]

Which ever bullet you are the most accurate and comfortable with. TTSX As far as shot placement I always prefer shooting into the far shoulder. Wait until the closer leg is forward then shot behind the shoulder and into the far shoulder.
TTSX work great. I have not shot the ELD-X ‘s yet and do not know how they preform at close range. If they stay together good at like 50 yards I would not hesitate to use them. Some long range bullets come apart at very close ranges and will not give good penetration.

 

[Tmac]

If both are started at 2,600 fps, that TTSX will be down to around 2,250 fps at 300, depending on environmentals. The ELD-X should be close to that. Assuming both are equally accurate, at those relatively low velocities, I go with the softer ELD-X. I might chrono the TTSX, it could be closer to 2,700 +/-. I’ve used both bullets on elk/deer, not goats, but I do try and avoid mono’s at lower velocities. What if that Billy is over 300 yards, say 375 yards, you passing or shooting? That is where the TTSX starts to enter iffy territory for good expansion and wound channels. It will still kill, but generally not as fast as a quicker opening design when velocities fall off.

 

[Antares]

If both are started at 2,600 fps, that TTSX will be down to around 2,250 fps at 300, depending on environmentals. The ELD-X should be close to that. Assuming both are equally accurate, at those relatively low velocities, I go with the softer ELD-X. I might chrono the TTSX, it could be closer to 2,700 +/-. I’ve used both bullets on elk/deer, not goats, but I do try and avoid mono’s at lower velocities. What if that Billy is over 300 yards, say 375 yards, you passing or shooting? That is where the TTSX starts to enter iffy territory for good expansion and wound channels. It will still kill, but generally not as fast as a quicker opening design when velocities fall off.

This is a good point. A 20" .308 hasn't got much going on in the velocity department... Somehow in my head I thought I was going to have enough velocity to get the TTSX out to 400 yards, but I was just looking at my calculator and I'm under 1800 fps at 400, whereas the ELD-X is still doing close to 2000 fps at 400 yards. I guess that sort of answers it for me. I'd like to stay under 300 yards, but I'm pretty comfortable in the 300-375 range so I'd like to keep that option open. Whatever, like I said in the beginning, this is off-season navel gazing. I have a case of both and they'll all get shot eventually. You could probably kill a goat with your car keys if you hit him right in the goodie basket at 2200+ fps.

 

[madcalfe]

well I've taken 2 goats with 178gr eldx and 1 with a 180gr nosler accubond outta my 300wsm doing 2925fps.
for a short barreled 308 id maybe look at a 168gr ABLR or even the 165gr accubond. I have mixed feelings about the ELDX at ranges under 150 yards granted my 300wsm is putting them out 300fps faster than your 308 so they might not be so explosive in your rig.