Shot placement with different types of bullets.

[AkRyan]

With all the talk about "what 30cal bullet for elk" or " will a mono work better than a lead core" I think it's time we actually discussed how important shot placement is with different types of bullets.

I am a firm believer in putting monos (solid copper or cast lead) into bone ensure expansion of coppers and to eliminate the animals ability to run away.
When we start talking about lead core bullets it can go both ways IMO, I see no problems putting a 180g NAB through a moose shoulder or right in the bread basket but I would never shoot shoulder with a 180g eldm/x.

What are your thoughts? Have any input?

 

[prairieboy]

thats been 100% my experiance. Soft bullets go in lungs. Hard are more forgiving, but you might be tracking a bit more.

 

[Cactus kid]

Watching. This type of discussion is why I keep coming to rokslide.

Ryan, I assume when you mean “into bone” you are talking about the scapula or vertebrae?

I personally like shooting on the shoulder, aka the “vital V”, whatever the preferred nomenclature is. What bullets to people like for this shot? I’ve had luck with Berger eols in the 6.5 caliper, bergers in the .30 caliber, and accubonds in the .30 caliber, eld-x 30 cal, on deer sized game. How does bullet selection change on this shot with heavier game like elk or moose?

 

[carsonkeys]

I don’t think never is the answer in regards to shooting a shoulder with an ELDM/X. I’ve done it a few times and it’s always turned out fine.

I’ve put an ELDM through the shoulder of a cow elk at ~2300 fps and it left a golf-ball sized hole in the offside shoulder.

I also put an ELDM through the (high) shoulder of a big nasty pig at ~2200 fps and it sat him straight on his ass.

I clipped the onside shoulder of a whitetail at ~2300 fps and it exited violently behind the offside shoulder.

With all of that said, I think (as in, could be wrong) the most effective location is off the bone and into soft tissue. I shot a doe squarely behind the shoulder at roughly ~2250 fps. It left a golf-ball sized hole on exit and literally pushed the bottom half of her heart out of the hole.

 

[Lawnboi]

I find It comical that a big reason people shoot monos is to limit meat damage, then they go and shoot them right in the shoulder

 

[prairieboy]

I don’t think never is the answer in regards to shooting a shoulder with an ELDM/X. I’ve done it a few times and it’s always turned out fine.

I’ve put an ELDM through the shoulder of a cow elk at ~2300 fps and it left a golf-ball sized hole in the offside shoulder. View attachment 523388

I also put an ELDM through the (high) shoulder of a big nasty pig at ~2200 fps and it sat him straight on his ass. View attachment 523391

I clipped the onside shoulder of a whitetail at ~2300 fps and it exited violently behind the offside shoulder.View attachment 523394

With all of that said, I think (as in, could be wrong) the most effective location is off the bone and into soft tissue. I shot a doe squarely behind the shoulder at roughly ~2250 fps. It left a golf-ball sized hole on exit and literally pushed the bottom half of her heart out of the hole. View attachment 523399View attachment 523400

All your listed speeds are in the range where trsdition cup and cores preform well. the results wouldnt be the same at 3000 fps, so impact volocity comes into the conversation.

 

[carsonkeys]

All your listed speeds are in the range where trsdition cup and cores preform well. the results wouldnt be the same at 3000 fps, so impact volocity comes into the conversation.

What would the results be? Not trying to be a dick - genuinely curious.

 

[Laramie]

All your listed speeds are in the range where trsdition cup and cores preform well. the results wouldnt be the same at 3000 fps, so impact volocity comes into the conversation.

If a guy is intentionally ruining meet at point blank range, I feel he deserves what he gets. The 143 grain 6.5mm ELD bullets will cleanly go through the should blade of an elk at all normal hunting ranges. Why a person would do it intentionally is beyond me but if a mistake were made, and heavy bone is hit, the bullet won't disintegrate.

Here is damage done by a 6.5PRC hitting a leg bone just below the scapula on a mature elk. The bullet didn't stop there...

 

[prairieboy]

What would the results be? Not trying to be a dick - genuinely curious.

less penetration, severly messed up shoudler, soft cup and cores can blow to pieces in 10 inches or less. Slow them down they typically do fine.

 

[wapitibob]

I use light for caliber Hammers, heavy for caliber Bergers, and stay off the scapula with both.

 

[rootacres]

I agree. I think 30 cal monos are great for elk, moose, bear etc. but they are happy hitting something hard. I’ve watch a handful of bull elk fall to the TTSX. When shot in the shoulder the bulls go down quick. When shot behind the shoulder I’ve watched them pencil through. That’s not to say it isn’t lethal but the shot doesn’t anchor the animal.

That said I’ve used the polar opposite as well. I’ve been involved in 3 elk harvests with Bergers. One was a 300 win mag, the other 2 were out of my 7 SAUM. All 3 bulls were down in less than 5 steps. All 3 were shot in the shoulder. The bullets did exactly what i expected them to do. Penetrate ~4-5 inches and then break up.

Hunters should do some research and pick their poison. There are no wonder bullets. What one bullet is great at another may be poor at. Manage the expectations and be realistic.

 

[rootacres]

I use light for caliber Hammers, heavy for caliber Bergers, and stay off the scapula with both.

Same here. The hammers love speed, the bergers I slow down. The only difference is I still aim for the shoulder. One elk sized game and smaller it’s worked great.

 

[Macintosh]

I dont shoot elk much, more deer,and mostly inside 200 yards or much less. Been shooting ttsx for several years, always aim for heart/lungs and never had an animal go far, most deer were down in their tracks. the meat damage thing for me is for if I hit shoulder on the off-side on a quartering away shot. My experience so far is that given similar shot placement the monos ruin significantly less meat than the lead bullets Ive used (core lokts, ballistic tips, sst’s, partitions). Ive never intentionally hit the shoulder. Not saying its wrong, just never tried to do it, and so far never had a recovery rodeo as a result. ( knocking on wood)

 

[Formidilosus]

Proper shot placement for heavy for caliber ELD-X, ELD-M, TMK, and Berger bullets-

 

[Scotto]

Golf ball size exit at 290 yds from a Berger 175 EH out of a 280ai. Broke a rib going in, went through both lungs. Soupy mess inside. She went thirty yds.

 

[Rich M]

What would the results be? Not trying to be a dick - genuinely curious.

I shoot 150 cup and corr out of 3006 at 2900 fps.

Inside 100 yards it is s one hole bullet, dramatic bang flops. 150 yds+ it is a full penetration bullet.

Still get bang flops out to 250 yards.

 

[roosiebull]

I find It comical that a big reason people shoot monos is to limit meat damage, then they go and shoot them right in the shoulder

It is funny, and a mono in heavy bone makes a mess… I shot a buck a few years ago with a ttsx from a 7 rem mag, first shot behind the shoulder, he started going up the hill and stopped facing uphill, second shot hit the spine and exited through the scapula and it was among the worst meat damage I have personally had.

If they are still on their feet I will keep killing them, just out of instinct, and that can get messy.

Would my first shot have shocked him more with a bullet that disrupts violently? If so, that match bullet would have been much easier on meat in that situation.

I’m not shooting again if the critter is visibly dazed, knowing they are going to tip over, but when they are moving off with intent, I am… that can be tough on meat

 

[AkRyan]

In my exp when you put a cup core bullet in the bread basket they don't live long at all. That being said I don't hunt deer with rifles and my only experience is on large game in Alaska.
We harvested 2 cows this year with the trusty 7mm08's using 150g eldx and they both dropped where they stood with perfect heart/lung shots. Both were under 100yrds also and we only found the back half of the cup of one bullet. Internals of the moose were pure jello.