Angle drop chart??

[BillyGoatGruff]

How do I make an angle range card/drop chart??

I have a mountain goat hunt (http://www.rokslide.com/forums/show...ints-went-from-15-to-0-Colorado-G13!-whoo-hoo!) coming up soon and want to prepare for the likely chance of taking a steep angle shot.

I cant afford a G7 rangefinder that will figure it all out for me. But I do have a Leica 1600B.
So I have a good rangefinder. I hope to not have a long shot (500 yds for me) but I have practiced out to 800 yds.
I still figure that even a shorter shot say 300ish would have to be corrected for if the angle gets steep enough.

So I want to make a few range cards with various angles.
The 1600b can give me the angle and I could look at the card for a solution or I have shooter on my phone that also could do that. I think A card will be better.

One of the things with the 1600B is it has a EHR setting, but I cant for the life of me figure out how to get it setup to just give the the EHR without inputting one of there ballistic curves which provides a calculated hold over. None of the curves in there list is anywhere near my curve. I inputted the closest one and it doesn't seem to be very accurate. If anyone has a 1600B I'd be curious to know how other guys have it setup?
It seems that the vast majority of people that shoot longer ranges just dial it in. I don't understand why Lieca put the hold over correction on the thing. why couldn't they just make it simple and just have it give you the EHR?

Back to the angle card. If I use a ballistic program and put in say 35 deg. and a 350yd distance. is this calculating that as a EHR distance or is that a line of sight along the 20 deg angle? trying to wrap my head around this.

examp. I input 350 yrd for distance at 35 deg angle it gives me a correction of up 1.9 moa? If I input the same data at 0 deg angle it gives me up 3.3 moa correction

Trying to figure out how to take the corect range with the rangefinder to cross reference to the card? With the 1600 B I can get the line of sight and the angle really easy. Does the ballistic program calculate the EHR?

Thanks, BGG

 

[pyroducksx3]

The ballistic program should only need the actual and the angle, that's kind of the point if the program. I have an angle indicator on my rifle since that's what my program uses. But there is a formula to figure it out. So I have the convertion chart with the formula in my bullet pouch and the range card with a ballistic reticle chart on the other. I figure if my phone dies my gps has a calculator so I can use that. Here's a pic if my bullet pouch and the convertion chart.

 

[Hunt'nFish]

BGG, IMO your making this angle compensation thing WAY too complicated.
Print your chart for 0degree, flat level angle. Your 1600B should be able to be set to tell you the angle and True Horizontal Distance, dial in MOA or hold over for the true horz distance. It's that simple. No need for multiple angle charts.

For those good doing quick math in their head:
45d shot, hold 70% of line of sight range. 22d shot hold 80%.
Inside 500yd that'll do just fine.

Hope this help simplify things for you.
Hunt'nFish

 

[Cahunter805]

If you go to the gseven website and use their ballistics program you can print a drop chart with angles up to 40 degrees. That should get you started at least.

 

[KMD]

Leica 1600-b directions for enabling ABC (angle ballistic compensation)

http://www.binoculars.com/images/pdf/LCI112.pdf
Page 38 in the above link:

Settings and selecting the ballistic
output formats

Start with step 1 if you have not previously opened the
menu control, or with step 3 if you have just specified the
zeroing range and ABC is still flashing in the display.

1. Press and hold the secondary button (1) (≥3s).
• The display shows USEU.

2. Press the secondary button briefly (<2s) three times.
• The display changes to bAll, then to SId, and then to
AbC.

3. Press the main button (2) several times to select the
required ballistic setting.
- EHr or
- HOLd, or
- 1-1 (1MOA), or
- 1-3 (1
/3 MOA), or
- 1-4 (1
/4 MOA), or
- 10mm or
- 5mm.

4. Save your setting by briefly pressing the secondary
button.
• The saved setting is lit continuously for 4s as
confirmation and then disappears.

With ABC mode enabled, from 100-800yds, the 1600-b will display the corrected distance to target.
Use that corrected value in your ballistic solver, and don't worry about angle compensation.

If your shots are <100 or >800yds, then the 1600-b won't work & you'll need a different means to correct for angular distance...

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

The ballistic program should only need the actual and the angle, that's kind of the point if the program. I have an angle indicator on my rifle since that's what my program uses. But there is a formula to figure it out. So I have the convertion chart with the formula in my bullet pouch and the range card with a ballistic reticle chart on the other. I figure if my phone dies my gps has a calculator so I can use that. Here's a pic if my bullet pouch and the convertion chart.

That's kinda what I figured. I've only used the ballistic programs for flat 0 deg range cards. I have two ways at the moment to get the angle. One is the 1600B and when I'm in my shooter app on my phone it has a angle tool. It seems to match the deg of angle on the 1600B pretty good. Then use my shooter app for the solution.

I'll make up some angle cards in case the phone dies.

Thanks BGG

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

BGG, IMO your making this angle compensation thing WAY too complicated.
Print your chart for 0degree, flat level angle. Your 1600B should be able to be set to tell you the angle and True Horizontal Distance, dial in MOA or hold over for the true horz distance. It's that simple. No need for multiple angle charts.

The problem with the 1600B when you set it for true horizontal distance you still have to select one of there ballistic curves and then it calculates that THD off that curve. I have no idea where they came up with those curves. None are even close to what my curve is.

I've ran a couple tests from my shooter app against the 1600B corrected True horizontal distance. Lets see if I can explain with out confusing my self.
line of sight target 471yd at 2 deg. the 1600B gives me a shoot to range of 432. So if I input 432 in my app on a flat 0 deg it gives me a correction of up 3.5 moa
then I input 471 with a 2 deg look angle in the app and it spits out a correction of up 4.3 moa. almost a moa diference. if I input 471 on a flat 0 deg I still get 4.3 moa. So imo the 1600B is not giving me the correct shoot to range.

Now if my curve matched one of there curves this thing would be the bomb! But it don't!! where did they get them curves anyway?

Sorry for the 2 deg example. It's pretty flat where I live.

Thanks, BGG

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

If you go to the gseven website and use their ballistics program you can print a drop chart with angles up to 40 degrees. That should get you started at least.

Thanks, I plan to do that and make a few for back up if my phone dies. Most likely if I have a shot that will require a corection then I'll try to use the app on my phone. Maybe I'll get lucky and have a flat 100 yd shot! Or I could just jump one and use my knife! (see video in thread,http://www.rokslide.com/forums/show...ints-went-from-15-to-0-Colorado-G13!-whoo-hoo!)

Thanks, BGG

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Leica 1600-b directions for enabling ABC (angle ballistic compensation)

http://www.binoculars.com/images/pdf/LCI112.pdf
Page 38 in the above link:



With ABC mode enabled, from 100-800yds, the 1600-b will display the corrected distance to target.
Use that corrected value in your ballistic solver, and don't worry about angle compensation.

If your shots are <100 or >800yds, then the 1600-b won't work & you'll need a different means to correct for angular distance...

Yep, have it set to EHR. it just don't work for sh$t....

BGG

 

[KMD]

So, when you turn EHr 'off', the 1600-b reads 471yds, but when you set EHR to 'on', the 1600-b reads 432yds? for a 2degree correction?

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

So, when you turn EHr 'off', the 1600-b reads 471yds, but when you set EHR to 'on', the 1600-b reads 432yds? for a 2degree correction?

More or less. First It gives me a line of sight of 471 then a few seconds later it shows the EHR of 432. Then If I press the secondary button I can get the deg. which is 2deg. and also gives me temp and bar. pressure. The deg is right on cuz I checked it with my shooter app on the phone

From what I know is that the corrected EHR is calculated off the curve I select based off the temp and pressure? if that makes sense?
The curve for my rifle falls between the 1st and 2nd curves in the list Leica provides. I actualy selected the 1st curve that is pretty flat. If I choose #2 the difference is even worse

BGG

 

[KMD]

OK.
I see what you're saying. I think that secondary 432 # is indeed based on the unit spitting out a corrected ballistic curve.

I don't have any of the ballistic stuff set up in my 1600-b, only have the EHr turned on to account for angle.
So, the first yardage distance displayed on my unit is the actual corrected distance.

I don't know if you can do some kind of 'reset' of your 1600-b to turn off the ballistic data? Or go into the program menu and de-select that feature? Maybe a call to Leica tech support will help?

Should add: a few degrees isn't going to make an appreciably difference in dope, unless the range is extreme!

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

I can turn off the ballistic curves, but when I do it doesn't give you the option to select ehr. seems all or nothing. this is a newer 1600B I got it about this time last year.

 

[KMD]

hmm, now I"m scratchin' my head here!
I have to go back in and see just how my unit is configured?
Was going on memory, but it's been a few years since I configured mine...

Could it be that the 1600-b angle compensation is automatic, when ranges are 100<800 yds?
I'll mess with mine again, and report back...

 

[LaHunter]

You could get an angle cosine indicator or you could just make a card in 10 degree increments with the cosine listed.
The way this has been explained to me is as follows:
Say you have a 25 degree shot angle at 350 yards. The cosine of 25 degrees is .906. You would multiply 350 by .906 to get your corrected distance to dial to which would be 317 yards.
Not 100% sure this is exactly correct, but this is how it was explained to me.

Good Luck

 

[Sam Millard]

You could get an angle cosine indicator or you could just make a card in 10 degree increments with the cosine listed.
The way this has been explained to me is as follows:
Say you have a 25 degree shot angle at 350 yards. The cosine of 25 degrees is .906. You would multiply 350 by .906 to get your corrected distance to dial to which would be 317 yards.
Not 100% sure this is exactly correct, but this is how it was explained to me.

Good Luck

You are correct. Cosine is easy to use (even without a ballistic program) because of how it's figured into the drop...cosine x yardage = compensated yardage. Cosine indicator mounted to rifle is the most accurate way of measuring; close second is iPhone with "get" feature sitting on turret.

I never use my 1600-B for angle compensation. If you do, make sure you are measuring at the turret, using the angle of the rifle to the target. Standing above the rifle will increase or decrease the angle ( depending on uphill or downhill shot) quite a bit if you aren't careful!

 

[Hunt'nFish]

Following this 1600B discussion w/ interest. I've been wanting to upgrade to it and was waiting for the B model to come out. But man it sounds unnecessarily complicated..... or the bomb if you can master it.
Considering I use multiple rifles, I'm not sure I want it using ballistic curves and such.
I just want a True Horz corrected range and nothing more. I'll figure the rest.
Hunt'nFish

 

[KMD]

If I were shooting in steep country, I'd definitely employ an ACI on the rifle.
Most of my shooting is in rolling 'cow country' where +/- 5° is the norm.

In this pic, the far tree row is 1465yds, ranged with the 1600-b. Little steel target stand is 860yds, can't see it this shot.

That is a far cry from steep mountain shooting, where an ACI would be the best tool to employ.
Still have to figure out what I did to my 1600-b to get corrected for angular distance.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Following this 1600B discussion w/ interest. I've been wanting to upgrade to it and was waiting for the B model to come out. But man it sounds unnecessarily complicated..... or the bomb if you can master it.
Considering I use multiple rifles, I'm not sure I want it using ballistic curves and such.
I just want a True Horz corrected range and nothing more. I'll figure the rest.
Hunt'nFish

That's exactly why I bought the 1600B, because they advertised it would do true horizontal range. they don't mention that you have to use there pre-set ballistic curves to do so.

I believe that the older 1600's did not have the barometric pressure and actually did THD. but don't quote me on that, LOL.

I'm heading out in the morning to do a my last zero check and do a final trajectory validation. If all goes well. On Sunday I'll head to the mountains and try some steep angle shots. I'm just going to use my shooter app to get the angle solutions and get the angles from the 1600B and try the angle tool on the phone as well.

I'll report back on the shooting sessions.

I have read on another forum that guys have got it to work in ehr mode with no curve selected, but they dont know how they got it that way??

BGG

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

If I were shooting in steep country, I'd definitely employ an ACI on the rifle.
Most of my shooting is in rolling 'cow country' where +/- 5° is the norm.

In this pic, the far tree row is 1465yds, ranged with the 1600-b. Little steel target stand is 860yds, can't see it this shot.

That is a far cry from steep mountain shooting, where an ACI would be the best tool to employ.
Still have to figure out what I did to my 1600-b to get corrected for angular distance.

On my 1600B, if you press the secondary button two times real quick it displays the settings?

BGG