Anchoring shots/aiming for heavy bone with monolithic bullets

[Hoodie]

I've vacillated between bow and rifle hunting elk. First two seasons were archery and I passed on shots I didn't feel 100% on. Third year I killed a cow with a rifle. Last year I lost the first bull I hit with an arrow on a shot I felt extremely confident on. Bad experience. Sold my bow and committed to the rifle, which was sort of a backup deal for me with elk up until that point.

The cow I killed year before last was with a 6.5 CM and the 143 ELD-X. I have a firm 300 yard limit. With that cartridge/bullet combo I limited myself to broadside or quartering away shots where I didn't need to punch through any heavy muscle or bone. Pretty much the same shot selection criteria I'd use with a bow. For penetration's sake as well as to limit meat damage.

I picked up a more appropriate dedicated elk rifle for this year (7mm Rem Mag). With the extra velocity I feel comfortable using monos, which wouldn't be my first choice out of the Creedmoor even though I'm sure they'd do fine within my effective range.

Questions:

Anybody intentionally aim for the shoulder when shooting copper bullets?

How has penetration been on steeper quartering shots?

Any issues with limited expansion despite staying above recommended impact velocity? (I'd be at 2400 or so at my max range)

 

[madcalfe]

why use a mono? what's your max shooting range for a elk with the 7MMRM?

 

[Hoodie]

I like the idea of the extra penetration potential opening up angles I might pass on otherwise. And I figure with my short max effective range I won't have expansion issues.

Just seems like a 150 grain mono at 3000+ FPS would be good elk medicine at typical hunting ranges.

I don't dial and I base my max range on where my holdover is at the top of the vitals. So I might get to 325 or so with the 7mm but it won't be substantially different than with the 6.5 CM.

 

[Fogalo]

First of all - this always a given - shot placement always trumps everything else.

With a self imposed shooting range limit of about 300 yards - why not look at something bigger than a 7 rem mag? There’s plenty of rounds that are at 2000 fps at 300 yards.

I usually aim for the offside shoulder (aside from frontal and quartering to) - 180 barnes ttsx out of a 300 wm for elk same bullet out of an 06 for whitetails. 95% of whitetails with a high shoulder shot are DRT. Elk have been more of a mixed bag as they’re bigger and tougher. One specific reason I’d say look into larger bores for shorter range shoulder shots is to try and get a little better blood trail. When shoulder shots don’t result in a less than 50 yard track job there is substantially less blood than a lung or heart shot. Larger diameter bullet, larger hole. I’ve been looking for a 35 Whelen or something along those lines for this exact purpose.

Edit - only bullet I haven’t had a complete pass through was on a 250 lb whitetail that broke the back hip on the way in broke the offside shoulder and I found it under the hide on the other side.

 

[JoeDirt]

Ive shot the Barnes X bullets for a really long time. Most have been shot via a 300 win mag.

Zero issues hitting bone, so little issues that I actually aim for bone. Makes for quick recovery when they dont go too far.

Penetration is a weird one, some of my closest rifle shots (30 yards) were not pass throughs. Almost every bullet was recovered just under the hide on the opposite side. You will have no issues with penetration.

2400fps is well into the effective expansion range, ive seen ok performance down to 1800fps (on Barnes)

 

[5MilesBack]

My bullet of choice in my 7mag for "anchoring shots" was a 175gr Swift A-frame, or my 160gr Failsafes. Penetration was never an issue at all.......even a little bit. The A-frames will expand more than the Failsafes, but they'll both penetrate like crazy.

 

[Hoodie]

I’ve been looking for a 35 Whelen or something along those lines for this exact purpose.

The .35 Whelen is badass. Aside from being a lefty and pretty set on Tikka, I was specifically looking for a rifle to shoot copper out of, so I wanted something with a little speed, but tolerable recoil. 15+mph winds also aren't uncommon in my main area so the B.C. of the 7mm is nice.

The .35 has a lot of cool factor though. Probably about ideal as a short-ish range elk cartridge.

 

[madcalfe]

if 300 yards if your limit why not go with a 160gr accubond

 

[Hoodie]

Zero issues hitting bone, so little issues that I actually aim for bone. Makes for quick recovery when they dont go too far.

This is my thinking. A couple areas I hunt are public land fairly close to private, so I'm thinking being able to aim for bone will be an advantage with the monos.

 

[Fogalo]

The .35 Whelen is badass. Aside from being a lefty and pretty set on Tikka, I was specifically looking for a rifle to shoot copper out of, so I wanted something with a little speed, but tolerable recoil. 15+mph winds also aren't uncommon in my main area so the B.C. of the 7mm is nice.

The .35 has a lot of cool factor though. Probably about ideal as a short-ish range elk cartridge.

That’s kinda what I’m thinking. There’s a good chance if I fall in love with it it might be a deer whacker too

 

[Hoodie]

if 300 yards if your limit why not go with a 160gr accubond

I may end up doing that if copper bullets don't group particularly well, but I'm mostly interested in a bullet that will allow for intentionally aiming at bone. I'm sure the Accubond is more than tough enough for any advisable angle on an elk. But if I'm way over the expansion velocity anyway I'd prefer to use the hardest bullet I can find. Doesn't seem to be a downside for copper in that scenario.

Looks like with monos the concern is expansion, which you need speed and resistance for. I should have plenty of both aiming for the shoulder under 300 yards. If I was willing to shoot an elk at 500+ I'd be looking at something different.

That's theoretical though. Given my zero experience I figured there'd be plenty of guys on here who'd used them on elk. Seems like with monos people either love them or hate them.

 

[Bull_n_heat]

Copper lover here, so full disclosure out of the way.... Monos can be paradoxical in that the faster they are going, the more likely you are to find them. Basically, they open more when going faster. I think that's a good thing - it dumps their energy and there's not many things that are going very far after a well placed shot, no matter the bullet.

As for the 7 mag - I would see no reason to shoot anything else for what you have lined out. And if they shoot even 1.5-2" you will have plenty of space on an elk to hit vitals. I think you have no reason to doubt your thinking.

I don't like shooting bone if I can help it with monos (or anything), but it was indoctrinated in me at a young age to shoot for the shoulder, so occasionally I still do. Certain situations I will intentionally as well. I'd definitely rather hit bone with a mono than bullets with any lead (including accubonds which I have shot plenty of). You get less fragmentation and a better chance at something penetrating deeply even after punching through a bone.

FWIW I've found beautifully mushroomed barnes bullets after going through multiple shoulder blades with 7mm projectiles. And those elk never moved.

 

[wapitibob]

I use 140 Barnes out of my 7stw. I don’t see 500 as an issue.

 

[HiMtnHntr]

It's a wise practice to shoot elk in the shoulder and to pour it on as long as they are up and moving. People who do otherwise will eventually lose one.

 

[Marble]

Two times in the last 10 years I have had a 180 grain bullet from a 300 WM deflect horribly. One was on an offside rib,the other was just above the knuckle of the front leg. It deflected forward, breaking a bunch of ribs and the leg. Probably eventually fatal,the animal was able to move pretty good.

Point being, I would not intentionally shoot an elk in the front leg at a longer distance. Over 400 yards.

Even saying that, I've pushed those bullets through both front shoulders over that distance several times. Just not something I would do on purpose.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[Whiskey_Fish]

I'm not really sure I understand the rationale behind shooting intentionally into the front side shoulder. Why would you not want to reserve the majority of your energy for the work done in the vitals? I feel like the risk of a deflection is greatest intentionally shooting into bone. There's a lot of lung on elk and plenty of room behind the shoulder to work.

 

[Fogalo]

I'm not really sure I understand the rationale behind shooting intentionally into the front side shoulder. Why would you not want to reserve the majority of your energy for the work done in the vitals? I feel like the risk of a deflection is greatest intentionally shooting into bone. There's a lot of lung on elk and plenty of room behind the shoulder to work.

The idea is you want to hit high shoulder - you can break both shoulders, spine, and get lungs. Immobilize or slow down an elk to get more shots into. Elk can go a long way one lung.

 

[Hoodie]

To clarify, I mostly meant aiming for heavy bone when the angle presented put bone in the way of the vitals. Like a quartering-to shot, which I wouldn't attempt with a softer bullet or smaller cartridge. I'm not talking about going out of my way to hit bone if it isn't the best way to get to the lungs.

I am curious about people's experience on elk with the classic "high shoulder" shot though.



Anybody ever intentionally shot an elk here?

In this scenario, I wouldn't go out of my way to hit bone. I'd go for the V. But I have heard a ton of whitetail guys recommend this shot on deer.

 

[SoloWilderness]

It's a wise practice to shoot elk in the shoulder and to pour it on as long as they are up and moving. People who do otherwise will eventually lose one.

This is my thinking, I used to shoot 180g Partitions for everything (coming from a .270 to a 300WM), until I had a nice bull soak up 3 solid hits (observed by my hunting partner through binos at 275ish). 1st right behind the front shoulder, quartering away, shattered the offside shoulder but he stayed up and moving, if limping badly. 2nd about 6" back from the first, and 3rd into center mass at about 400 as he topped the ridge. Only found one bullet, the first one, and it was nothing but crumbs, it had completely broken up on the shoulder hit. If I hadn't kept shooting he would have gone a good ways. Still made it almost a mile with 3 bullets in him before he bedded. Won't use those bullets on anything but deer now (which they are fantastic for). Switched to 200g Eld-X LR and next 3 elk I shot dropped in their tracks. 1st was a bull that took 2 hits, but didn't go 10 yards. Next 2 were cows that literally just collapsed on the spot. Best performing bullet I've used on elk by far. No experience with solids, but your thinking on anchoring is solid, but from my experience with broken shoulders, they can still move effectively with one. 2 in the lungs though, they won't go far. Shoot them until they fall over, but I try not to destroy the shoulders, I always aim about 2-3" back from the crease of the front leg. Too much meat wasted IMO if I shoot directly into the shoulder.

 

[roosiebull]

if 300 yards if your limit why not go with a 160gr accubond

That’s a great bullet for his purpose, or the terminal ascent which acts similar but seems to disrupt better but still holding together really well… the terminal ascent is like a modernized refined partition… with my limited experience with them, they are my favorite projectile for my rifles

I have some hammers to load up and try too, but I don’t think they can work any better… stuff only gets so dead