American Prairie loses grazing rights

[Sandhills]

Elk do the same thing with fences.

The water sources that have been put in on the range are definitely helpful to wild life.

The ranchers locally do a piss poor job on them public, good winter range gets grazed to dust in August/September every year. Then the whining commences about elk and deer, if you bring it up they’re doing gods work preventing fires. We have cows illegally in wilderness areas, and the fine for over grazing is 1.33 per additional AUM, not exactly a deterrent.

I hunt some private ranches in nm, their range management is amazing and seeing how good ranchers treat their own dirt is fascinating to me. I know a lot of great ranchers including one of my best friends, it’s not all bad apples, just a few that fuk it up and it’s mostly the entitled lease guys that I end up having bad interactions with.

I carry a chain in my truck that I use to rip out illegal locked gates on public a couple times a year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Back where I grew up we had one of the original wilderness areas from the 1965 act. It had a grazing allotment because the rancher that had the allotment before it became a wilderness area was grandfathered in I suppose. It had some of the prettiest meadows, creeks and lakes a guy could ever see. But it also had some huge thick conifer stands. Its almost of it burned in the Dixie Fire back in 2021.

 

[KurtR]

Ranches dont raise buffalo in north america.

Where do you live all the people around here including the Cheyenne River Sioux and Standing Rock tribe all call them buffalo and bison interchangeably every one knows what they mean. Maybe the south africans that work here get confused and think there are cape buffalo i guess.

 

[PLhunter]

The average American, and I'll bet Canadian too, calls bison buffalo. Hell all the Indians I know call em buffalo.

I'll be sure to call them bison from now on so I don't confuse you.

Yeah this is unnecessary semantics. The context alone is enough to know what you’re talking about. I’m a biology a zoology nut and the older I get the more it bugs me when people get caught up on nomenclature vs common names.

As to the food value I think there are enough people like me who love bison, especially wild ones, to allow at least a fraction of a percent of our public land to have them.

 

[PLhunter]

I've been trying to track a cohesive narrative in the anti-APR position and the best I can come up with is "It's new and different and I hate it"

I guess I understand that sentiment. I’m just stuck a bit further in the past when it comes to “ it’s new and different and hate it”

Cattle, fences, development, and industrialized agriculture. All new, the bison, wild sheep, and prairie chickens and connected wild habitat to roam is old.

That’s the old school shit you think a hunter would be dreaming of.

 

[Gila]

Then why has the BLM granted grazing permits for bison for over 3 decades?

Why did BLM approve grazing authorizations in 2022, and defend those permits in the years after?

Because the definition of Livestock in 29 CFR is open-ended, and based on Montanas ruling and how they treat privately owned Bison they are livestock. But thats irrelevant in this instance, they are not attacking the basis for being livestock or not, they are using a "definition" they have decided to unilaterally use, thats not even in the TGA's language.

so we have on one hand, precedent thats been set for 30 plus years, or special interest groups bitching about their handouts being legally taken and used by someone else.

This is nothing more than special interests steering government action.

Regardless of what side you see yourself on, thats not something that should be welcomed.

There are “holes” in CFRs (Codified Federal Regulations). The CFRs are “distilled” from USC (United States Code) which is enacted by Congress. Sometimes the Federal Agency’s OGC (Office of General Counsel) broadens the scope of CFRs to protect that Agency’s Management decisions. If those Agency decisions are appealed; the appeal goes before that Agency’s appeal board. It is an intra-agency board made up by a panel of administrative law judges.

For BLM the appeals board is: Interior Board of Land Appeals (IBLA) which has the authority to hear grazing appeals. The ILBA decisions are final but can be reviewed by a U.S. District Court. The ILBA argues the law (USC) not the CFR. In this grazing case, precedence isn’t applied to federal law, rather precedence only applies to future BLM grazing decisions. The issue at hand is APs free ranging bison that are not raised for profit - consumption etc. Those bison are not “plugged” into the national economy in any way. If there were prior decisions made to graze bison on public lands, and I’m not doubting that there were, those decisions were made based on bison that were being raised for consumption and/or profit.

My “beef” is public lands are being used to subsidize politically motivated special interest groups and not by businesses that contribute to the national economy. Hunting only exists because of the North American Wildlife Conservation Model. American Prairie is not part of that model.

 

[Big Sky Guy]

The issue at hand is APs free ranging bison that are not raised for profit - consumption etc. Those bison are not “plugged” into the national economy in any way. If there were prior decisions made to graze bison on public lands, and I’m not doubting that there were, those decisions were made based on bison that were being raised for consumption and/or profit.

My “beef” is public lands are being used to subsidize politically motivated special interest groups and not by businesses that contribute to the national economy. Hunting only exists because of the North American Wildlife Conservation Model. American Prairie is not part of that model.

AP allows public hunting of them on the BLM lands, which in turn are being consumed by the hunters, no? So since the AP allows PUBLIC hunting of bison and doesn't charge for them this is somehow "unplugged" from the national economy? Say they were not allowing any hunting and just slaughter them like cattle and selling, then would they be plugged in?

By this logic all elk and deer etc. on USFS lands are also unplugged?

 

[Big Sky Guy]

 

[Gila]

AP allows public hunting of them on the BLM lands, which in turn are being consumed by the hunters, no? So since the AP allows PUBLIC hunting of bison and doesn't charge for them this is somehow "unplugged" from the national economy? Say they were not allowing any hunting and just slaughter them like cattle and selling, then would they be plugged in?

By this logic all elk and deer etc. on USFS lands are also unplugged?

The tail is wagging the dog…

 

[finner]

The tail is wagging the dog…

 

[WRO]

There are “holes” in CFRs (Codified Federal Regulations). The CFRs are “distilled” from USC (United States Code) which is enacted by Congress. Sometimes the Federal Agency’s OGC (Office of General Counsel) broadens the scope of CFRs to protect that Agency’s Management decisions. If those Agency decisions are appealed; the appeal goes before that Agency’s appeal board. It is an intra-agency board made up by a panel of administrative law judges.

For BLM the appeals board is: Interior Board of Land Appeals (IBLA) which has the authority to hear grazing appeals. The ILBA decisions are final but can be reviewed by a U.S. District Court. The ILBA argues the law (USC) not the CFR. In this grazing case, precedence isn’t applied to federal law, rather precedence only applies to future BLM grazing decisions. The issue at hand is APs free ranging bison that are not raised for profit - consumption etc. Those bison are not “plugged” into the national economy in any way. If there were prior decisions made to graze bison on public lands, and I’m not doubting that there were, those decisions were made based on bison that were being raised for consumption and/or profit.

My “beef” is public lands are being used to subsidize politically motivated special interest groups and not by businesses that contribute to the national economy. Hunting only exists because of the North American Wildlife Conservation Model. American Prairie is not part of that model.

How is cattle grazing on public lands for profit part of North American conservation model?