American Prairie loses grazing rights

[Q_Sertorius]

Corner Crossing isn't yet legal in the 9th Circuit.

Anyone who tries to prosecute for corner crossing is going to lose very quickly: in any circuit. Yes, it might be a pita for a “little guy”, but anyone willing to undergo the process will win.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

As someone living on the other side of the country, it doesn’t directly matter to me whether wild animals or cows roam on a big chunk of prairie.

As a hunter, who hopes to raise future hunters, I love the idea of more and better public hunting opportunities in the future.

As part owner of a beef cattle farm in Virginia, I can only scratch my head at the subsidies given to large western ranches in the form of public land. I can’t ever run a sizable bison herd on my farm, but I can run a very efficient cow-calf operation. Given the choice, I’d rather see more productive use of eastern farmlands for cattle and a large chunk of the prairie restored - via the market - to wildlife.

As a taxpayer, I’d rather the public land on the prairie be used for a broadly-available public resource - like hunting tourism - rather than a very inefficient cattle/grazing operation.

All that to say that APR seems like a pretty good idea.

 

[KurtR]

All i know is i would rather hunt a pasture with cows vs bison. Bison are some mean sons of bitches we were stuck in goose pits as there was an old bull who ran around south of gettysburg by bobs resort and would ram vehicles busses or what ever else he saw. Finally had to pepper it in the ass to get on the bus to get out of there.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I would rather hunt elk and eat steaks produced on BLM land with my tax dollars.

If the ruling said "no bison or cattle grazing" then maybe you have a basis for this statement. In this situation, correct me if I am wrong, it does nothing towards your goals of hunting elk produced on BLM land because a cattle rancher will just lease it instead and it seems like this ruling will be a net zero for your purposes.

 

[npaden]

The American Prairie (nature reserve) - Wikipedia typically hosts roughly 7,000 to 13,000 head of cattle on its leased lands across its management units in Montana. While the reserve aims to restore native species, it continues to support local livestock producers by leasing grazing rights.
Key details regarding cattle and land usage:

• Grazing Leases: The American Prairie manages roughly 9,000 to 10,000 head of cattle across 10 of its 12 management units.
• Capacity: The reserve's land has the capacity to support up to 110,000 beef cows and calves, according to Beef Magazine.
• Bison Comparison: In contrast to the thousands of cattle, the American Prairie bison herd was approximately 900 in 2023.

APR is managing it's deeded and leased properties in a vastly different way than the typical ranch. They are not trying to maximize the grazing like a normal rancher would. Corner crossing has no bearing here at all because they currently allow free unrestricted access to cross any of their deeded property to get to public land. No need to cross only at the corners. As mentioned they allow public hunting at no cost on most of their deeded land as well. From a wildlife, hunting and recreational standpoint there really isn't any remotely valid argument against APR. Some people are scared that they will suddenly restrict access in the future and then it would be just like it was when the previous owners had it. VERY little of the property that APR is currently allowing public hunting was accessible to the public in the past. It is private land and the previous owners didn't allow access.

The only argument that has any merit is that generational ranching is suffering, but I personally think that APR is just a scapegoat on that one. The majority of the kids growing up on the ranch are just not interested in that lifestyle and are moving off. That's why the land its getting sold off in the first place.

The alternative is that some wealthy billionaire buys it up and I guarantee that they would not allow public access.

 

[WRO]

That isn’t entirely accurate. Some private ranchers in the area are implementing the Mortensen Principles to restore the short grass prairie to its original natural state. As a result, more cattle can be grazed…Research has shown that cattle and bison grazing habits are very much the same. i don’t know how the Federal gov’t has invested in this effort…do know that some states’ extension offices have. There is a seed bank in Pierre, SD. Of course the benefit to wildlife is huge.

They’re not and I once again have to give you credit for giving the dumbest possible take on a situation you know jack shit about.

Bison graze completely differently than cattle, bison tend to graze off the prairies at varying heights leaving cover for birds and forage for other species. Additionally bison are out on the range all winter and can dig through 2 feet of snow, they use their heads to open up areas where other species then follow behind to get the food thats left exposed.

The reason that ranchers hate them is because of the burcellocis red herring, a disease that is dead within 24 hours of being exposed to the elements and only can be transmitted by getting into afterbirth. Out of the 100’s of bison transferred to holding facilities on the crow rez in mt, not one has popped positive. They’re not that hard on fences, and has research has shown in WY, those are huge issue for other species.

Public land ranchers are a bunch of entitled fukin crybabies that provide less than 3% of the beef consumed in the US. We can’t even get wildlife friendly fencing without a pile of whining from them.

 

[wapitibob]

They’re not and I once again have to give you credit for giving the dumbest possible take on a situation you know jack shit about.

the "ignore user" works wonders

 

[WRO]

the "ignore user" works wonders

I still enjoy watching women’s basketball from to time..

 

[CMF]

But getting back to the topic, I would rather hunt elk and eat steaks produced on BLM land with my tax dollars.

So, you'reagainst outfitter welfare in NM, but ok with rancher welfare in MT?

I haven’t seen a single logical reason why APR is bad. The weirdest thing is the circular arguments their opponents throw out.

Bison are bad for wildlife so we will graze cattle instead but to make it better for wildlife we will graze them like bison graze.

We believe in private property rights except for APR’s ability to buy property from willing sellers. We need to keep those people from being able to sell to them.

I agree

I would rather hunt elk and eat steaks produced on BLM land with my tax dollars.

I'd rather hunt elk and bison, which is possible with APR

 

[MT_Wyatt]

The argument that bison chase all these other species off feels disingenuous.

Free range cattle in the mountains create serious issues - that isn’t a guess, it is something that is easy to witness. They absolutely wreck low laying areas, waters, and displace animals. It can get quite disgusting. I’ve seen them “take over” feed areas for elk in densities that are shocking, and push them out of locations that used to be great to hunt. I do not think the practice should stop but I do feel like it needs regulated more.

Arguing cattle are better on the blm leases and interior properties to APR, vs a native species, and using fencing damage or “not chasing wildlife off” as a justification makes no sense to me.

 

[Marbles]

That part is sort of incorrect (AI). Clarence moved the cattle around by season so over grazing didn’t occur. He didn’t observe the movement of bison nor did he ever have bison on his ranch. It is merely coincidental. If you keep bison confined to a certain area without moving them around, they will over graze just like cattle do.

Don't post AI slop, and you will not have to try and clean up after it. There are a pile of other reasons to avoid the slop bucket, but this demonstration is too good not to point out.

 

[Gila]

So, you'reagainst outfitter welfare in NM, but ok with rancher welfare in MT?

Rancher welfare? Dude get a grip!

 

[johnnycake]

Rancher welfare? Dude get a grip!

Please explain how the AUM price of the leases on public land is not welfare when: A) the BLM and USFS spend 3-5x more per year to administer the grazing programs than the revenue collected in lease fees; AND B) the free market AUM price on comparable private lands is consistently much higher than the fees charged by BLM/USFS, often +20x higher.

I'll wait.

 

[Gila]

Don't post AI slop, and you will not have to try and clean up after it. There are a pile of other reasons to avoid the slop bucket, but this demonstration is too good not to point out.

There is some use for AI if you know how to use it…Beats typing all of that stuff. The biggest problem with AI that I see is it crawls the internet and weeds through all of the garbage posted on social media. If AI finds enough of the same garbage in different places it will establish that garbage as fact. Just look at this thread alone, there are posters here who knowingly put out false information in an attempt to undermine my creditability. They don’t like the stance I have taken with other issues, so they come here and troll on this thread. Doesn’t have anything to do with bison grazing on BLM land.

 

[finner]

Rancher welfare? Dude get a grip!

You have a persistent antipathy towards facts.

The Biggest Takeaways From Our Investigation Into Grazing on Public Lands

Livestock grazing is allowed across 240 million acres of federal land. Our investigation revealed the subsidies propping up ranching, its impact on the environment and the politics underpinning the system.

www.propublica.org

 

[Sandhills]

Not sure which is better Bison or cows. But Fed. grazing lands are sold WAY below market value. How does that benefit the public? And isn't that taking unfair advantage of taxpayers?

Only BLM and Forest service. USFWS grazing allotments are market value

 

[Axlrod]

Only BLM and Forest service. USFWS grazing allotments are market value

Ok...
Didn't know usfws had them.
Most or all of MT is USFS or BLM
This thread is talking about BLM

 

[Montana Slim]

Please explain how the AUM price of the leases on public land is not welfare when: A) the BLM and USFS spend 3-5x more per year to administer the grazing programs than the revenue collected in lease fees; AND B) the free market AUM price on comparable private lands is consistently much higher than the fees charged by BLM/USFS, often +20x higher.

I'll wait.

It's not 'welfare', it's just VERY 'heavily subsidized'....