Alaska side arm?

[dtrkyman]

I assume he is saying you are not stopping a charging brown bear, penetration is the ticket, after accuracy of course. I have zero bear charging experience but would carry what I am most proficient with.

 

[CoStick]

I plan on my 9mm with Buffalo boar.

 

[Beendare]

Irrelevant? Not sure in what context you're talking about. Foot pounds of energy is just a fact of ballistics and whether you compare hard cast to hard cast or fmj to fmj they all have an energy component that definitely isn't irrelevant. 10mm is going to have approx. 525 ft/lbs of energy (stopping power) compared to 44 mag at around 800 ft/lbs. 454 Casull is up around 14-1500 ft/lbs. Those aren't irrelevant numbers. The penetration of hard cast bullets will be relative to the velocity and energy of each different round. Are you saying that the difference in stopping power ( damage inflicted) between say a 9mm and 454 Casull is irrelevant because of the type of bullet used? Or a 12 ga slug (my preferred bear gun but impractical to carry while bow hunting)? Maybe I'm just not understanding what you're trying to say.

Delete

That should answer your question.
.

 

[Pilarczyk85]

I think firearm weight and round count are important things to consider and heres why. With my 460 Rowland I can have 5 shots in the a zone of an ipsc target before the first piece of brass hits the ground, that's fairly fast compared to what can be achieved with a high recoiling wheel gun. The auto loader also gives a shooter the ability to stay on target better and have a much better follow through during firing. As for weight, the lighter firearm is much more enjoyable to carry compared to a heavier so a person would be more apt to always have it on them which is good since a gun isn't useful if it's not on your person. Obviously weight doesn't bother everyone.

Based on the 2 charging grizz (small sample size so take my opinion with a grain of salt) I've had to shoot I would say number of shots one is able to fire depends on the situation and one's proficiency. It's easier to become more proficient with the cheaper to shoot lower recoiling option. Now back to the bears. One of the bears allowed me to get 4 rounds out and only one shot on the other bear. That was with a 454 casull that isn't exactly fast on the follow-ups, an auto loader will improve this. Both were back to back and I fired those 5 rounds out of a 6 round cylinder with no time to reload thankful the second bear didn't need 4 rounds like the first bear. That's more justification to higher round counts. I'm sure you have experience with shooting charging bears with a sidearm that makes you comfortable with your choice of gun given your style of doing things. At the end of the day it will always be personal choice and I hope it always works out for anyone who finds themselves in the unfortunate situation to need a sidearm for bears.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapa

As an eastern ohio hunter we obviously don't have these issues. I'm astonished a 454 didn't stop that grizz in it's tracks. Did the bear even react to the shots?

 

[BroncoAZ]

Glock 20. 15+1 of Buffalo Bore 10mm will handle most problems. I don’t prefer the exotic magnum revolvers, too heavy and to much punishment on the hands to practice routinley. I have no experience in Alaska, all my field time has been in AZ and southern UT.

 

[ddavis_1313]

Buddy said I could borrow his 44 mag super red hawk with 6” barrel if I wanted. Hell, may just use it to kill the caribou if I get within 40-50 yards. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Elk97]

You are using the old measure of performance.

Do you really think your 454 is going to stop the Grizz in his tracks? Probably not. Its similar to the old “flying ashtray” .45 cal knock them over argument….until the FBI testing debunked that. Real world is not the movies where guys fly backwards when hit with a bullet.

You are thinking the old theories of transferring bullet energy- more is better- to the subject. Sure, some of that applies but very large Grizz and Brown bears have a proven track record of being able to take a licking and keep on ticking.

The one (undisputed) factor in stopping these big bears is a shot to CNS. #2 is breaking them down. Hard cast bullets are penetrating monsters. Even relatively low energy cartridges have proven to be effective against these large predators by over penetration and catching something that incapacitates them; head, spine, breaking bones, etc.

This ^ shows; total energy is less important than penetration.

You compared hardcast to FMJ. Both are solids but the wide meplat of the HC has proven much better in wound channel testing…night and day different actually.

I used to guide and do hog depredation. Many times I was left scratching my head at the poor stopping power of high caliber pistols. Ive been charged by hogs 30 times + and my .357 and .44mag with 157g/240g hollowpoints were the best choice according to the braintrust 30+ years ago,( using the stopping power theory) I can’t even tell you how many times I put multiple bullets into these hogs at close range and they kept coming. ( now we know better when it comes to bullet design)


The other factor that gets lost in The caliber wars is shot location. Bullets on target…is more important than bullet energy out the muzzle. Why did the US military go to a lighter caliber? Easier for the avg guy to get shots on target. This is even more important when talking fast shooting under pressure, like on a wild predator charge. Many guys cannot shoot a heavy cal revolver both fast and as accurately as a semi auto.

There are many reasons why something like a G20 is both faster and more accurate.
Gas operated lessens recoil
You can get up high on a semi auto lessening muzzle flip.
Faster more accurate followups

The 460 Rowland, 45 super and 10mm fit the bill for a pretty powerful cartridge that is still controllable. When matched with hard cast….they are proven stoppers. If you are Jerry Mickluk reincarnated and can shoot a big revolver fast and accurately....the above doesn't apply- grin

That should answer your question.
.

Thanks for the reply, appreciate it. I still think you are missing the point though. If you shoot both a 10mm semi auto and a 44 mag revolver well, and are using hard cast in each, the 44 is going to be the more effective choice (by your own description _ catching something that incapacitates them; head, spine, breaking bones, etc.). I'm not arguing against anyone using a 10mm, I'm saying that against a large griz you are going to have a better chance at stopping them with a more powerful (and therefore more penetration) cartridge. I own and shoot different Glocks, great guns, but those damn bears are huge and, in my opinion, you can't be over gunned against them. To the OP, whatever you choose, practice with it (a lot).

 

[Beendare]

Thanks for the reply, appreciate it. I still think you are missing the point though. If you shoot both a 10mm semi auto and a 44 mag revolver well, and are using hard cast in each, the 44 is going to be the more effective choice (by your own description _ catching something that incapacitates them; head, spine, breaking bones, etc.).

Of c