Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

I think this is all overthinking, if the sheep in the parks are doing just as bad as the sheep in heavily hunted areas… humans are not the problem. Everyone wants a fix. Time and weather is the only hope.

Best response so far.

Occam’s Razor. The most simple explanation is usually the right one. Paraphrased.

The real conversation needs to be about access and opportunity for hunters given the state of the sheep population and our collective lack of ability to do anything about.

Who gets to cut the pie and how does it get cut.
 
Lots of wounded sheep? Yeah no!
I doubt it. Most people wouldn’t be able to stalk close enough to have a chance. JMO. But, I like the motorized only idea even better.
I think this is all overthinking, if the sheep in the parks are doing just as bad as the sheep in heavily hunted areas… humans are not the problem. Everyone wants a fix. Time and weather is the only hope.
The sheep in alaskas 14c were doing quite well, last I spoke with the biologist for that area - summer 2023
 
Why doesn’t this God just fix the sheep issue? God must hate dall sheep and dall sheep hunters.

You might want to look at the draw areas a little closer after church tomorrow. Tok is down to 10 tags, delta is down and look at 13D. Not to mention the other hunts in 14.

One fact is true, sheep populations started going down with the small caliber fad took off.

Maybe wounding loss is real…
Tok/Delta areas have had some of the worst winters in the state in the past few years, see the Delta Bison herd status. I’m not a fan of the small caliber fad either, but I’m also not ready to attribute a plummet in population level numbers to the Creedmoor boys. Correlation doesn’t equal causation, check out how closely the fall of high seas piracy correlates with average global temperature levels. Did pirates secretly keep global warming at bay?

I’m sure wound loss happens, no doubt about that.
 
The sheep in alaskas 14c were doing quite well, last I spoke with the biologist for that area - summer 2023
14C sheep are doing quite well compared to what? 2 years ago? because 15 years ago i could see sheep from my front yard nearly every day. not anymore.
 
14C sheep are doing quite well compared to what? 2 years ago? because 15 years ago i could see sheep from my front yard nearly every day. not anymore.
All I have was what the biologist told me - that they were doing well. Maybe that is in context to the rest of the state. Comparing survey data from 15 years ago would be interesting
 
All I have was what the biologist told me - that they were doing well. Maybe that is in context to the rest of the state. Comparing survey data from 15 years ago would be interesting
The total number of FC rams counted in 14c last year was less than the entire harvest 15 years ago.

Sheep are not doing well anywhere. If you want to see a real doozy. Look up the population in 13D vs harvest.
 
The total number of FC rams counted in 14c last year was less than the entire harvest 15 years ago.

Sheep are not doing well anywhere. If you want to see a real doozy. Look up the population in 13D vs harvest.
I have been following 13D closely and it is way down

The comment on 14c may have been in comparison to other areas but I haven’t kept as close tabs on it because I haven’t drawn for it
 
That biologist was probably day dreaming. It seems like that’s they do down there most the time.

I remember going in and talking to biologists as a kid and they were always tanned and looked like they spent a lot of time outdoors. Walk in to our ADFG office in Palmer or Anchorage and it looks like fricking Halloween every day. They are all bright white and look like the only time they go outside is when they drive home. They all look like ghosts. It’s a true haunted house feeling. Bunch of dead animals hanging from the past, it’s down right scary.

Trick or treat? Those biologists tricked us good.

RiP dall sheep
This is both sad and also more accurate than people think.
 
there you have it. If you don’t get a tag you don’t care. There’s less sheep so less sheep hunters so less people caring.
I think you misunderstand me sir. I care about sheep and I hunt sheep. I just don’t call the biologist for 14C every year and ask what the numbers are and how the sheep in that area are doing.

My understanding was they were doing fairly well in relation to the rest of the states sheep. But people are taking exception to that. Maybe I am mistaken, and I am happy to admit that if so.

The numbers I was given for the 14C sheep survey in 2023 were 1133 total sheep. 292 sublegals.
 
That biologist was probably day dreaming. It seems like that’s they do down there most the time.

I remember going in and talking to biologists as a kid and they were always tanned and looked like they spent a lot of time outdoors. Walk in to our ADFG office in Palmer or Anchorage and it looks like fricking Halloween every day. They are all bright white and look like the only time they go outside is when they drive home. They all look like ghosts. It’s a true haunted house feeling. Bunch of dead animals hanging from the past, it’s down right scary.

Trick or treat? Those biologists tricked us good.

RiP dall sheep
I don't know, the bios I've talked to in ANC and the valley hunt sheep plenty. I don't keep close tabs on them, but a few years ago I talked with Brockman about the Northern Chugach and he shot a stud that year. Lohuis was hunting and netting and tagging sheep all the time. I don't know what that proves, but I think you're exaggerating.
 
The next Board of Game meeting to discuss regulation change proposals is March 21-28, 2025. Public comments are due by March 7.

Based on the last few meetings it seems like the BOG is poised to adopt the proposal re: 19C authored by Mike Litzen, guide and member of the "19C Sheep Working Group."

Again that proposal is as follows:

Modify the resident and nonresident hunt structure for sheep in Unit 19C, and establish a guide concession pilot program as follows:

The Unit 19C Sheep Working Group requests a closure for 2025 to all general season hunts except the RS380 subsistence hunt.

In 2026/27 there will be a temporary draw hunt with a sunset clause after two years where 80% permits are allocated to residents and 20% to nonresidents, with a 5% cap for second degree kindred (2DK) nonresident hunters, coming out of the nonresident allocation. The 2DK hunt sponsor shall also notch harvest ticket for bag limit.

We request Unit 19C be used as the pilot program for the guide concession program, implemented by 2028. In 2028, if the guide concession program for Unit 19C is in place, then residents and nonresidents will go to harvest ticket hunts.

What is the issue you would like the board to address and why?
Declining sheep populations in Unit 19C. We remain concerned primarily about the health of the sheep population in Unit 19C. Please refer to the charge statement of the working group, the results of the working group meeting in October 2024, and the letter submitted with the agenda change request. This approach prioritizes the well-being of the species over the distribution of hunting opportunities. The primary goal is to balance the interests of conservation, local communities, and economic factors. These adjustments are about managing the resource sustainably rather than just allocating hunting rights. If the problem is not solved prior to the regular meeting cycle, the Unit 19C Sheep Working Group will not achieve our mandate. The board deferred all proposals for sheep hunting in Unit 19C out of cycle to allow the sheep working group to submit a proposal which is timely with the other proposals. The closure was a temporary measure put in place, and we are now in a position to create future hunting opportunities for multiple users. The Unit 19C Sheep Working Group will not achieve our mandate. In this time of uncertainty, we are trying to ensure the healthy sheep populations in Unit 19C.


I am still firmly in the camp that we can't manage animals, only hunters. As such, this proposal feels like a loss of opportunity for resident hunters with no real benefit to the animals. I also don't buy the "we are doing it for the animals" schtick. What Litzen and the other guides in and around 19C are trying to do is, through the concession program, carve out their little piece of the sheep pie and guarantee themselves X number of sheep hunts each year and a reasonable chance of success at killing rams for their hunters. Simple as that. The resident opportunities are a distant afterthought if a priority at all.

In 2024, 47 resident hunters killed 10 rams in 19C. Under this proposal and assuming roughly the same number would have hunted 19C in 2025, these displaced hunters will wind up competing with others in increasingly smaller pockets still holding sheep and the potential for legal rams. Crowing is already a problem without additional hunting area closures and more displaced hunters.

Losing the opportunity to hunt this specific area would also be a hard blow to many who have developed a deep connection to the western Alaska Range, low as their chances of killing something may be.

I still feel like the starting point in any more restrictive measures should be guides and non-residents, as is the case currently in 19C. Loss of resident opportunity, in my opinion, should be a last resort when there is little left to give by the commercial interests. The 80/20 split is OK. I rather see 90/10, but that is just me being greedy.

Comments can be submitted and the other proposals can be viewed here:

 
please comment on this proposal, WalterH is exactly right the loss of resident opportunity is very concerning. This will increase hunter conflict. this is not just about unit 19C this is about Alaska sheep as a whole. Appointing a guide to write the management plan for a certain species in a certain area is one of the craziest things I have ever heard. Guaranteed wealth, it’s not about the sheep it’s about the money. Continue the non resident closure then open draw tags for non residents on a quota that is based on 10% of what was killed in that unit the prior year.
 
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