Alaska Sheep, 19C Working Group

[AK4]

The sheep in alaskas 14c were doing quite well, last I spoke with the biologist for that area - summer 2023

14C sheep are doing quite well compared to what? 2 years ago? because 15 years ago i could see sheep from my front yard nearly every day. not anymore.

 

[rickyw]

14C sheep are doing quite well compared to what? 2 years ago? because 15 years ago i could see sheep from my front yard nearly every day. not anymore.

All I have was what the biologist told me - that they were doing well. Maybe that is in context to the rest of the state. Comparing survey data from 15 years ago would be interesting

 

[FAAFO]

Tok/Delta areas have had some of the worst winters in the state in the past few years, see the Delta Bison herd status. I’m not a fan of the small caliber fad either, but I’m also not ready to attribute a plummet in population level numbers to the Creedmoor boys. Correlation doesn’t equal causation, check out how closely the fall of high seas piracy correlates with average global temperature levels. Did pirates secretly keep global warming at bay?

I’m sure wound loss happens, no doubt about that.

I don’t care what caliber someone uses to kill a sheep. I guess I should have put a after it.

I don’t think wounding loss on sheep is even close to an issue. Not even top 100. I just decided to do a DIY, non computer, 0 miles walked, 1.5 ft of elevation gain (couch) fishing trip. Fishing was good.

If you think wounding loss is an issue you might want to take some self reflection of the circle you run in. Maybe take that circle to the range. Sheep are the biggest pussies once hit with a bullet. Not hard to kill at all. Fact.

 

[FAAFO]

All I have was what the biologist told me - that they were doing well. Maybe that is in context to the rest of the state. Comparing survey data from 15 years ago would be interesting

That biologist was probably day dreaming. It seems like that’s they do down there most the time.

I remember going in and talking to biologists as a kid and they were always tanned and looked like they spent a lot of time outdoors. Walk in to our ADFG office in Palmer or Anchorage and it looks like fricking Halloween every day. They are all bright white and look like the only time they go outside is when they drive home. They all look like ghosts. It’s a true haunted house feeling. Bunch of dead animals hanging from the past, it’s down right scary.

Trick or treat? Those biologists tricked us good.

RiP dall sheep

 

[Bambistew]

All I have was what the biologist told me - that they were doing well. Maybe that is in context to the rest of the state. Comparing survey data from 15 years ago would be interesting

The total number of FC rams counted in 14c last year was less than the entire harvest 15 years ago.

Sheep are not doing well anywhere. If you want to see a real doozy. Look up the population in 13D vs harvest.

 

[rickyw]

The total number of FC rams counted in 14c last year was less than the entire harvest 15 years ago.

Sheep are not doing well anywhere. If you want to see a real doozy. Look up the population in 13D vs harvest.

I have been following 13D closely and it is way down

The comment on 14c may have been in comparison to other areas but I haven’t kept as close tabs on it because I haven’t drawn for it

 

[FAAFO]

I haven’t kept as close tabs on it because I haven’t drawn for it

there you have it. If you don’t get a tag you don’t care. There’s less sheep so less sheep hunters so less people caring.

Few care about sheep. If this was happening to moose state wide you bet your ass there would be progress.

Keep it the way it is. It is what it is. The only thing we should do different is change the draws to harvest ticket .

 

[207-12A]

That biologist was probably day dreaming. It seems like that’s they do down there most the time.

I remember going in and talking to biologists as a kid and they were always tanned and looked like they spent a lot of time outdoors. Walk in to our ADFG office in Palmer or Anchorage and it looks like fricking Halloween every day. They are all bright white and look like the only time they go outside is when they drive home. They all look like ghosts. It’s a true haunted house feeling. Bunch of dead animals hanging from the past, it’s down right scary.

Trick or treat? Those biologists tricked us good.

RiP dall sheep

This is both sad and also more accurate than people think.

 

[rickyw]

there you have it. If you don’t get a tag you don’t care. There’s less sheep so less sheep hunters so less people caring.

I think you misunderstand me sir. I care about sheep and I hunt sheep. I just don’t call the biologist for 14C every year and ask what the numbers are and how the sheep in that area are doing.

My understanding was they were doing fairly well in relation to the rest of the states sheep. But people are taking exception to that. Maybe I am mistaken, and I am happy to admit that if so.

The numbers I was given for the 14C sheep survey in 2023 were 1133 total sheep. 292 sublegals.

 

[alexanderg23]

100% draw in 5 years? That’s a pretty good bet.

 

[Meknowy]

That biologist was probably day dreaming. It seems like that’s they do down there most the time.

I remember going in and talking to biologists as a kid and they were always tanned and looked like they spent a lot of time outdoors. Walk in to our ADFG office in Palmer or Anchorage and it looks like fricking Halloween every day. They are all bright white and look like the only time they go outside is when they drive home. They all look like ghosts. It’s a true haunted house feeling. Bunch of dead animals hanging from the past, it’s down right scary.

Trick or treat? Those biologists tricked us good.

RiP dall sheep

I don't know, the bios I've talked to in ANC and the valley hunt sheep plenty. I don't keep close tabs on them, but a few years ago I talked with Brockman about the Northern Chugach and he shot a stud that year. Lohuis was hunting and netting and tagging sheep all the time. I don't know what that proves, but I think you're exaggerating.

 

[FAAFO]

I don't know, the bios I've talked to in ANC and the valley hunt sheep plenty. I don't keep close tabs on them, but a few years ago I talked with Brockman about the Northern Chugach and he shot a stud that year. Lohuis was hunting and netting and tagging sheep all the time. I don't know what that proves, but I think you're exaggerating.

Stud? He shot a horse? Not surprised.

Gosh I hope they hunt sheep. You think a rancher is a vegan? Only difference is a rancher needs to make money so he grows the herd. A biologist gets paid the same whether there’s more or less sheep. And if there’s less sheep there’s less work. So yeah….

 

[WalterH]

The next Board of Game meeting to discuss regulation change proposals is March 21-28, 2025. Public comments are due by March 7.

Based on the last few meetings it seems like the BOG is poised to adopt the proposal re: 19C authored by Mike Litzen, guide and member of the "19C Sheep Working Group."

Again that proposal is as follows:

Modify the resident and nonresident hunt structure for sheep in Unit 19C, and establish a guide concession pilot program as follows:

The Unit 19C Sheep Working Group requests a closure for 2025 to all general season hunts except the RS380 subsistence hunt.

In 2026/27 there will be a temporary draw hunt with a sunset clause after two years where 80% permits are allocated to residents and 20% to nonresidents, with a 5% cap for second degree kindred (2DK) nonresident hunters, coming out of the nonresident allocation. The 2DK hunt sponsor shall also notch harvest ticket for bag limit.

We request Unit 19C be used as the pilot program for the guide concession program, implemented by 2028. In 2028, if the guide concession program for Unit 19C is in place, then residents and nonresidents will go to harvest ticket hunts.

What is the issue you would like the board to address and why?
Declining sheep populations in Unit 19C. We remain concerned primarily about the health of the sheep population in Unit 19C. Please refer to the charge statement of the working group, the results of the working group meeting in October 2024, and the letter submitted with the agenda change request. This approach prioritizes the well-being of the species over the distribution of hunting opportunities. The primary goal is to balance the interests of conservation, local communities, and economic factors. These adjustments are about managing the resource sustainably rather than just allocating hunting rights. If the problem is not solved prior to the regular meeting cycle, the Unit 19C Sheep Working Group will not achieve our mandate. The board deferred all proposals for sheep hunting in Unit 19C out of cycle to allow the sheep working group to submit a proposal which is timely with the other proposals. The closure was a temporary measure put in place, and we are now in a position to create future hunting opportunities for multiple users. The Unit 19C Sheep Working Group will not achieve our mandate. In this time of uncertainty, we are trying to ensure the healthy sheep populations in Unit 19C.

I am still firmly in the camp that we can't manage animals, only hunters. As such, this proposal feels like a loss of opportunity for resident hunters with no real benefit to the animals. I also don't buy the "we are doing it for the animals" schtick. What Litzen and the other guides in and around 19C are trying to do is, through the concession program, carve out their little piece of the sheep pie and guarantee themselves X number of sheep hunts each year and a reasonable chance of success at killing rams for their hunters. Simple as that. The resident opportunities are a distant afterthought if a priority at all.

In 2024, 47 resident hunters killed 10 rams in 19C. Under this proposal and assuming roughly the same number would have hunted 19C in 2025, these displaced hunters will wind up competing with others in increasingly smaller pockets still holding sheep and the potential for legal rams. Crowing is already a problem without additional hunting area closures and more displaced hunters.

Losing the opportunity to hunt this specific area would also be a hard blow to many who have developed a deep connection to the western Alaska Range, low as their chances of killing something may be.

I still feel like the starting point in any more restrictive measures should be guides and non-residents, as is the case currently in 19C. Loss of resident opportunity, in my opinion, should be a last resort when there is little left to give by the commercial interests. The 80/20 split is OK. I rather see 90/10, but that is just me being greedy.

Comments can be submitted and the other proposals can be viewed here:

Meeting Information: Alaska Board of Game, Alaska Department of Fish and Game

Alaska Board of Game meeting information from the Alaska Department of Department of Fish and Game.

www.adfg.alaska.gov