AK Sheep, Population Observations
- Thread starter ColeyG
- Start date
B_Reynolds_AK
WKR
I flew in a cub all over the Southern Wrangell’s last week before the opener. The lack of 8+ year old age class rams is very concerning.
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LivinGood
FNG
Hunted the DCUA last week for my cousins tag and it is slim pickings for older rams. Saw 15 rams and 2 of those were solid maybes. Sheep seem to be real spread out as well. Hunted the same area 5 years ago on my tag and saw 30 rams with 10 being clearly legal. couple more years with good winters and hunting should be good though.
- Thread Starter
- #344
OP
ColeyG
WKR
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- Oct 25, 2017
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Well, that is a wrap for sheep season for me. It has been three full seasons since I last laid eyes on a legal ram. I'd like to think I haven't gotten worse as a sheep hunter as more time has gone by, but I am certainly beginning to wonder. As much as I would like to believe that maybe I am the problem and suck at sheep hunting, sadly, I think the problem is much larger at the moment.
The sheep numbers overall, and beyond that, numbers of mature rams in Alaska is absolutely dismal. Definitely a continuation of the downward trend over the last handful of years and this will be the case for years to come if, and that is a big IF, winter conditions are conducive to high survival rates. In the last 4 years I've spent time on multiple trip in the Wrangells, AK Range, and Chugach, and in most places, it just seems like the age class of legal rams is just plain missing.
I spent time in three distinctly different areas on two 7-9 day trips this year and didn't see any rams bigger than 3/4 curl, and a fraction of the sheep that these areas traditionally hold. As usual, we covered a lot of ground and looked over a lot of ridges and into a ton of valleys logging about 145 miles on foot. In many places, sheep were just absent. No fresh sign, grass and weeds growing in ridgetop best. In others places, a smattering of ewes, a few lambs, and occasionally a single 4-5 year old ram might be found.
For the last few years I've been seeing something that strikes me a highly unusual, lone immature rams, and single 3-4 year old rams hanging out with ewes and lambs. Finally late in my second trip this year I saw a group of 3 small rams, but by and large most of the rams we've been seeing were singles, which, based on my experience, is highly unusual for young rams.
We documented approximately 12 winter killed sheep in 2 valleys in the Wrangells this year as well. Obviously we only saw a small percentage of the terrain in these valley's close enough to make such observations, which really makes me wonder how many actually died there.
I continue to hear of similar experiences from hunters and guides that have been in the game for a while and know what "normal" is, and this ain't normal.
Of course plenty of hunters have enjoyed success, and of course some old and very nice rams have been harvested. It will be very interesting to see how this years harvest and participation rates compare to last year's, the lowest on record for rams sealed. It will also be interesting, and I am sure depressing, to see how many sub-legal rams were taken. It was approaching 10% of the known take halfway through the season according to some bios I talked to.
Tough times for sheep and sheep hunters here in AK.
The sheep numbers overall, and beyond that, numbers of mature rams in Alaska is absolutely dismal. Definitely a continuation of the downward trend over the last handful of years and this will be the case for years to come if, and that is a big IF, winter conditions are conducive to high survival rates. In the last 4 years I've spent time on multiple trip in the Wrangells, AK Range, and Chugach, and in most places, it just seems like the age class of legal rams is just plain missing.
I spent time in three distinctly different areas on two 7-9 day trips this year and didn't see any rams bigger than 3/4 curl, and a fraction of the sheep that these areas traditionally hold. As usual, we covered a lot of ground and looked over a lot of ridges and into a ton of valleys logging about 145 miles on foot. In many places, sheep were just absent. No fresh sign, grass and weeds growing in ridgetop best. In others places, a smattering of ewes, a few lambs, and occasionally a single 4-5 year old ram might be found.
For the last few years I've been seeing something that strikes me a highly unusual, lone immature rams, and single 3-4 year old rams hanging out with ewes and lambs. Finally late in my second trip this year I saw a group of 3 small rams, but by and large most of the rams we've been seeing were singles, which, based on my experience, is highly unusual for young rams.
We documented approximately 12 winter killed sheep in 2 valleys in the Wrangells this year as well. Obviously we only saw a small percentage of the terrain in these valley's close enough to make such observations, which really makes me wonder how many actually died there.
I continue to hear of similar experiences from hunters and guides that have been in the game for a while and know what "normal" is, and this ain't normal.
Of course plenty of hunters have enjoyed success, and of course some old and very nice rams have been harvested. It will be very interesting to see how this years harvest and participation rates compare to last year's, the lowest on record for rams sealed. It will also be interesting, and I am sure depressing, to see how many sub-legal rams were taken. It was approaching 10% of the known take halfway through the season according to some bios I talked to.
Tough times for sheep and sheep hunters here in AK.
- Thread Starter
- #345
OP
ColeyG
WKR
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- Oct 25, 2017
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- 378
Man I wish I could share your optimism, but based on what I have been seeing, there aren't many young rams working on getting older, and not many ewes on the hill to rebuild the population. Ewe/lamb ratios were as bad as I have ever seen this summer. I am trying hard to find the potential light at the end of the tunnel and it seems like a long way off if things go well for sheep in the near future, which is a giant maybe at best.
CHL
Lil-Rokslider
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- Aug 5, 2019
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- 219
Just depends on where you’re at I guess. I was in the Alaskan Range and killed a nice Ram. Saw 11-12 total Rams with one more legal one, and three more that were dang close. Killed on the second day so certainly didn’t get to look at all the country we had planned on either.
Atigun
FNG
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- Feb 25, 2021
- Messages
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We saw over 50 rams on the first hunt this season and many were in bands of 4-6. No full curls, but 3 were aged at 8 years old. 3 half curl rams solo. 60-70 ewes with very few lambs and a few young rams running with them. 3 winter kill rams with two being half curl and 1 full curl. Golden eagles galore. Heading back out in a couple days to close out the season.
Have you hunted in that area before and if so how did the numbers compare this year to in the past? It just seems like it’s all so relative. This year I saw what I considered to be a large number of sheep but talking to the pilots who have flown in for years and years the numbers were 1/3 of what they historically have been.
What mountain range?
Atigun
FNG
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- Feb 25, 2021
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Talkeetnas. I should add that with the exception of pre season scouting this was my first time in this particular area so I have no previous years observations to compare with.
CHL
Lil-Rokslider
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2019
- Messages
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Yes my first time as well in there. But pilot said he has seen what he said were “good” numbers of Rams last two years as well in there.
- Thread Starter
- #352
OP
ColeyG
WKR
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Those seem like good numbers for the Talkeetna's and glad to hear there are decent numbers of younger rams on the way up there.
william schmaltz
WKR
NOTICE OF PUBLIC MEETING OF THE ALASKA BOARD OF GAME
Notice is given that the Alaska Board of Game (Board) will hold a non-regulatory, informative meeting via web-conference at 1:30 p.m. on Wednesday, October 19, 2022. The main purpose of the board meeting is to receive a report from the Department of Fish and Game on recent survey and harvest data of Dall sheep, and future management considerations.
The meeting is open to the public via live audio stream at www.boardofgame.adfg.alaska.gov. No oral testimony will be taken.
The Board will accept written public comment, due no later than Thursday, October 13, 2022. Written comments may be submitted on the Board’s website at www.boardofgame.adfg.alaska.gov; faxed to (907) 465-6094; or mailed to Boards Support Section, P.O. Box 115526, Juneau, AK 99811-5526.
The meeting agenda, reports, and other meeting materials will available online at https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=gameboard.meetinginfo&date=10-19-2022&meeting=webconference. For more information about the meeting, contact the Department of Fish and Game, Boards Support Section at (907) 465-6098.
Notice is given that the Alaska Board of Game (Board) will hold a non-regulatory, informative meeting via web-conference at 1:30 p.m. on Wednesday, October 19, 2022. The main purpose of the board meeting is to receive a report from the Department of Fish and Game on recent survey and harvest data of Dall sheep, and future management considerations.
The meeting is open to the public via live audio stream at www.boardofgame.adfg.alaska.gov. No oral testimony will be taken.
The Board will accept written public comment, due no later than Thursday, October 13, 2022. Written comments may be submitted on the Board’s website at www.boardofgame.adfg.alaska.gov; faxed to (907) 465-6094; or mailed to Boards Support Section, P.O. Box 115526, Juneau, AK 99811-5526.
The meeting agenda, reports, and other meeting materials will available online at https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=gameboard.meetinginfo&date=10-19-2022&meeting=webconference. For more information about the meeting, contact the Department of Fish and Game, Boards Support Section at (907) 465-6098.
- Thread Starter
- #354
OP
ColeyG
WKR
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- 378
With the 2023 AK sheep season winding down, I am curious to hear from some folks who have spent time in the hills this year and what they saw for sheep numbers, historic comparisons that can be offered, lamb recruitment observations, etc.
I spent a week in GMU 13 for the opening week in a place that was mostly new to me. For the first time in the last 3 sheep trips we found a few legal rams. Two in a group of seven looked pretty good. One full curl that I aged at 7, another older but less than full. Unfortunately between weather and them leaving the valley, we never caught up with them.
The lamb-to-ewe ratio in the area looked to be pretty terrible. For 3 different groups of lambs and ewes, the avg. was about 1 lamb for 8-9 ewes.
The only other ram we saw on the trip was a young ram, 4-5 years old, all by himself and running scared. We saw him each day for 3 days and he was constantly on the move. I don't recall seeing this, single young rams, until a few years ago. Seems to be a relatively recent phenomena?
The anecdotal reports from around the group of friends and acquaintances seems to indicate another record low harvest year. How could it be anything different. Lots of good hunters striking out. The good guides seem to be getting theirs but working hard for them. The super cub cowboys have found some good rams but are complaining about having to burn a lot of gas to get it done.
What has everyone else been seeing in AK this year?
I spent a week in GMU 13 for the opening week in a place that was mostly new to me. For the first time in the last 3 sheep trips we found a few legal rams. Two in a group of seven looked pretty good. One full curl that I aged at 7, another older but less than full. Unfortunately between weather and them leaving the valley, we never caught up with them.
The lamb-to-ewe ratio in the area looked to be pretty terrible. For 3 different groups of lambs and ewes, the avg. was about 1 lamb for 8-9 ewes.
The only other ram we saw on the trip was a young ram, 4-5 years old, all by himself and running scared. We saw him each day for 3 days and he was constantly on the move. I don't recall seeing this, single young rams, until a few years ago. Seems to be a relatively recent phenomena?
The anecdotal reports from around the group of friends and acquaintances seems to indicate another record low harvest year. How could it be anything different. Lots of good hunters striking out. The good guides seem to be getting theirs but working hard for them. The super cub cowboys have found some good rams but are complaining about having to burn a lot of gas to get it done.
What has everyone else been seeing in AK this year?
VernAK
WKR
Did you see many caribou in DCUA? We aren't seeing many on this West end.
I spent 16 days sheep hunting this year, in two different ranges.
We saw less than 1/2 the sheep we see historically in one area I've hunted for many year, but lamb numbers were much higher than normal. Probably 70% of ewes had lambs. The other area, was a first time, so not sure how it compared to historically, saw 40-50% ewes with lambs or about normal, and a few yearlings in the group. We looked at a lot of country and saw probably the vast majority of sheep in the areas we hunted, spotting many/most sheep several days over. I documented best I could age class, numbers, etc, and usually do every year. We saw one decent ram. Couldn't get a bullet in him, and he moved a long ways between sightings. The outfitter shot two rams out of one area, neither we would have shot due to iffy-ness on legality, both were 8, neither were FC. I saw them both in hand.
The sad thing was rams between 1-3 were next to non-existent. Usually they should make up about half the rams we see. We saw an ok number of mid-age rams (4-7), but again less than half of normal. We saw 2 older rams that were likely 9-10+, neither FC, just stacked up rings or it looked like and heavy, Those old looking rams, but we weren't shooting based on rings, both were broomed one side as well, but 30-32" at best.
We didn't' shoot a ram on either hunt, just didn't have the opportunity to, or see much to shoot. From what I heard the harvest was tracking last year or just a little behind. About what I expected. IMO, harvest is going to fall off a cliff in a few years based on the lack of young rams out there. The winter 10-11 years ago we had almost twice as many sheep on the landscape as 2 years ago. Not hard to figure out, if the ram harvest went from 700/year to 400 last year, and we now have half as many sheep as we did 10 years ago... we'll e looking at ram harvest in the 200-300s.
Those bad winters equal dead lambs, dead yearlings, and aborted lambs, plus higher than normal winter kill.
Really little we can do but hope for better winters and shoot predators if given the opportunity. Still fun to get out and see the country and chase a ram or two. I just hope they recover enough so my kids can enjoy hunting them too.
We saw less than 1/2 the sheep we see historically in one area I've hunted for many year, but lamb numbers were much higher than normal. Probably 70% of ewes had lambs. The other area, was a first time, so not sure how it compared to historically, saw 40-50% ewes with lambs or about normal, and a few yearlings in the group. We looked at a lot of country and saw probably the vast majority of sheep in the areas we hunted, spotting many/most sheep several days over. I documented best I could age class, numbers, etc, and usually do every year. We saw one decent ram. Couldn't get a bullet in him, and he moved a long ways between sightings. The outfitter shot two rams out of one area, neither we would have shot due to iffy-ness on legality, both were 8, neither were FC. I saw them both in hand.
The sad thing was rams between 1-3 were next to non-existent. Usually they should make up about half the rams we see. We saw an ok number of mid-age rams (4-7), but again less than half of normal. We saw 2 older rams that were likely 9-10+, neither FC, just stacked up rings or it looked like and heavy, Those old looking rams, but we weren't shooting based on rings, both were broomed one side as well, but 30-32" at best.
We didn't' shoot a ram on either hunt, just didn't have the opportunity to, or see much to shoot. From what I heard the harvest was tracking last year or just a little behind. About what I expected. IMO, harvest is going to fall off a cliff in a few years based on the lack of young rams out there. The winter 10-11 years ago we had almost twice as many sheep on the landscape as 2 years ago. Not hard to figure out, if the ram harvest went from 700/year to 400 last year, and we now have half as many sheep as we did 10 years ago... we'll e looking at ram harvest in the 200-300s.
Those bad winters equal dead lambs, dead yearlings, and aborted lambs, plus higher than normal winter kill.
Really little we can do but hope for better winters and shoot predators if given the opportunity. Still fun to get out and see the country and chase a ram or two. I just hope they recover enough so my kids can enjoy hunting them too.
Walked 61.7miles from 7 Aug - 16 Aug. Glassed hundreds of square miles. Total numbers:
23 ewes/lambs (most ewes had lambs) but im sure some of these were the same sheep that i saw on different days
5 sub legal rams with one of those about 1.5" under full curl.
Last year walked maybe 15 miles from 9 Aug -11 Aug and saw 12 rams (6 were "day one shooters") and 30 ewes/lambs. Took a 10yr old ram on the 11th of Aug so I was back to strip rather quick.
Not an apples to apples comparison but I was in the exact same area (6years in a row now) and this year was demoralizing, sad and frustrating. Not sure if it was a localized die off more so than a complete mountain range die off or a "move out" of the traditional sheep population. I saw little evidence to show a die off this last winter/spring (carcasses/dead heads etc) but I could be just missing these by pure luck. But the mileage and glassing time was so much to produce so little results, I am just at a loss for words to describe it.
23 ewes/lambs (most ewes had lambs) but im sure some of these were the same sheep that i saw on different days
5 sub legal rams with one of those about 1.5" under full curl.
Last year walked maybe 15 miles from 9 Aug -11 Aug and saw 12 rams (6 were "day one shooters") and 30 ewes/lambs. Took a 10yr old ram on the 11th of Aug so I was back to strip rather quick.
Not an apples to apples comparison but I was in the exact same area (6years in a row now) and this year was demoralizing, sad and frustrating. Not sure if it was a localized die off more so than a complete mountain range die off or a "move out" of the traditional sheep population. I saw little evidence to show a die off this last winter/spring (carcasses/dead heads etc) but I could be just missing these by pure luck. But the mileage and glassing time was so much to produce so little results, I am just at a loss for words to describe it.
- Thread Starter
- #358
OP
ColeyG
WKR
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- Oct 25, 2017
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- 378
I wish it was just a local problem. With the exception of a few smaller pockets of sheep that seem to be doing OK, the trend across the state is most populations are down 40-70% over historic averages. Several areas that have historically supported small populations of sheep are without any animals at all. I know of two examples from this years surveys where that is the case.
Another troubling trend that seems to be emerging over the last few years is the average age of rams killed. I've been hearing of lots of 6-7 year old sheep getting killed, potentially half or more of the total. The current "science" and management practices say that the FC/8/broomer harvest requirements limit harvest to old rams that aren't needed to maintain/sustain herds on a population level. Seems like we might have to take a look at that if a bunch of 6-7yo rams are dying each year.
To think that not long ago, we were seeing 1200+ rams taken each year. My how things have changed.
Another troubling trend that seems to be emerging over the last few years is the average age of rams killed. I've been hearing of lots of 6-7 year old sheep getting killed, potentially half or more of the total. The current "science" and management practices say that the FC/8/broomer harvest requirements limit harvest to old rams that aren't needed to maintain/sustain herds on a population level. Seems like we might have to take a look at that if a bunch of 6-7yo rams are dying each year.
To think that not long ago, we were seeing 1200+ rams taken each year. My how things have changed.
does anyone know what the percentage of die-off is contributed to predation?
AK_Skeeter
WKR
Minor compared to deep crusty snow that will not blow off windy slopes, rain on snow events, thick ice glazing.
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