Age class vs tag availability, what does it take now?

[Jaden Bales]

I guess the easiest way to ask this is explain a situation. While looking at reports for units that can be drawn with 1 point, the info provided for the area often says most bucks taken are 2-4 years old. It seems like around 4.5 is where mule deer really start looking like mule deer, and maybe what some people consider the first year of maturity. So if you are looking for that decent 4x4, are these types of units likely going to be a bust? I'm concerned about the alternative which is point creep in better units. Is it still possible to shoot nice bucks with low points (potentially), or if you aren't invested in a tons of points you are screwed? Like what does it take in the current landscape to not shoot a forky?

A big flaw in tooth data is that the average hunter gets out for a weekend or two and just wants to shoot a buck. Locals are rarely too concerned with looking for even a 4.5-year-old buck or a decent 4x4. There's some great examples in Montana that were covered last year on the Rokcast where the places folks know have the best potential for old deer are some of the youngest average age class killed.

I personally like hunting those places without a lot of hardcore hunters vying for the mature bucks. Those guys are lethal and bring that top end down and make hunting difficult whereas some of my favorite hunts have been OTC for residents, 0-1 point draws, and everyone is just buzzing around on a side-by-side looking for legal bucks and not digging in and putting the work.

Give me a unit that's low points, and/or give me one I can learn from multiple years over a single chance to make the best on a tag one time.

 

[Undrgrndprdcts]

A big flaw in tooth data is that the average hunter gets out for a weekend or two and just wants to shoot a buck. Locals are rarely too concerned with looking for even a 4.5-year-old buck or a decent 4x4. There's some great examples in Montana that were covered last year on the Rokcast where the places folks know have the best potential for old deer are some of the youngest average age class killed.

I personally like hunting those places without a lot of hardcore hunters vying for the mature bucks. Those guys are lethal and bring that top end down and make hunting difficult whereas some of my favorite hunts have been OTC for residents, 0-1 point draws, and everyone is just buzzing around on a side-by-side looking for legal bucks and not digging in and putting the work.

Give me a unit that's low points, and/or give me one I can learn from multiple years over a single chance to make the best on a tag one time.

Makes a lot of sense.

 

[Andrew12gauge]

Let’s run some numbers of an average 1 or 2 point unit.
Let’s say there are 3,000 deer in that unit and the buck to doe ratio is 30:100. That’s 900 bucks in the unit. Now let’s say the mature (5.5 year old or older) deer percentage is 5% of the buck herd. That puts you at 45 bucks you’re looking for in an entire unit. Now let’s say the unit is 525 square miles. That’s one mature buck for every 11.6 square miles.

I would guess some of your numbers to be extremely generous, especially with buck to doe ratio and the % of bucks that live to 5.5


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[fulldraw1972]

I would guess some of your numbers to be extremely generous, especially with buck to doe ratio and the % of bucks that live to 5.5


Sent from my

I would guess some of your numbers to be extremely generous, especially with buck to doe ratio and the % of bucks that live to 5.5


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually my rough numbers are close as far as buck to doe ratio.
But I agree with the big buck percentage could be high but what is it? 4%, 3% or even less.

Unit A has 2800 deer and takes 1 point for an archery tag. The CPW says the buck to doe ratio is 30:100.
With a mature buck percentage of 5% there would be 42, with 4% it’s 34, and with 3% it’s 25.
Unit B takes 2 points for an archery tag. The CPW says there is 2600 deer with a buck to doe ratio of 35:100. With a mature buck percentage of 5% there would be 46, with 4% it’s 36, and with 3% it’s 27.

 

[Undrgrndprdcts]

That's an interesting way to break it down.

 

[River Reaper]

Actually my rough numbers are close as far as buck to doe ratio.
But I agree with the big buck percentage could be high but what is it? 4%, 3% or even less.

Unit A has 2800 deer and takes 1 point for an archery tag. The CPW says the buck to doe ratio is 30:100.
With a mature buck percentage of 5% there would be 42, with 4% it’s 34, and with 3% it’s 25.
Unit B takes 2 points for an archery tag. The CPW says there is 2600 deer with a buck to doe ratio of 35:100. With a mature buck percentage of 5% there would be 46, with 4% it’s 36, and with 3% it’s 27.

I like this way of looking at it. MT it’s like 9:100 B : D ratio lol, haven’t seen a 160” on public in over 2 years… tough place to be a mule deer fanatic. Literal needle in a haystack, or just hunting ghosts. Feels like the latter most years. Not sure why people come here to hunt deer unless they just really enjoy rutting mule deer buck meat.

 

[Undrgrndprdcts]

So would the state make you change your answer on whether it is indeed worth it to pursue these lower point units? It seems like the overwhelming answer is yes it's worth it, which I assume people are thinking CO. Is your answer the same for WY?

 

[RockAndSage]

So would the state make you change your answer on whether it is indeed worth it to pursue these lower point units? It seems like the overwhelming answer is yes it's worth it, which I assume people are thinking CO. Is your answer the same for WY?

Still yes.

Seriously, the best analogy I can offer is that guys obsess about gaming zones the same way they game out and bench-race different cartridges.

The best answer for any of that is the same = maximize experience.

Go hunt, friend.

 

[Buglebrush]

If you're looking for a big deer in otc or low point units, you need to look for units with survivability. For example, Eastern Montana has few to none big bucks and it's simply because there's too much access and not enough cover. They very rarely live long enough to get big. Western Montana has Giants, but you'll earn them in the dark timber and steep country. Get out there and hunt, but if you want a big one in open, easy to access country you'll want a limited entry tag that's hard to draw.

 

[Coyote Commander]

Whats "big"?

We kill the snot out of yearling to 140 inch mule deer here. Most eastern guys go home happy. Anyone thats been around mule deer more than a little, goes "meh". Some nice deer, but little to no "great" deer.

While I do believe just about any unit can produce a giant occasionally, you can also waste a lot of time and years hunting those units with extremely low probability. It behooves one to look into units with tougher draws and better stats towards mature/big deer.

 

[LONE HUNTER]

I don't know how to put it nicely, but realistically you are going to have to spend a lot of time to kill a big deer in any unit you can draw without waiting a bunch of years (or just get super lucky, that happens too). And unless you've hunted mule deer a bunch, to be frank, you probably wont kill a big one even if you get a "good" tag. The good tags these days only pretty much make it easier to shoot a mid buck. Big ones are still rare.

The method comes down to picking a place that has historically produced big deer (Boone and crocket books help with this) and spend a hell of a bunch of time hunting in those areas.

There's no cheat code. There's really not all that much to it other than picking an area and not pulling the trigger until you find a big deer.

 

[Undrgrndprdcts]

I don't know how to put it nicely, but realistically you are going to have to spend a lot of time to kill a big deer in any unit you can draw without waiting a bunch of years (or just get super lucky, that happens too). And unless you've hunted mule deer a bunch, to be frank, you probably wont kill a big one even if you get a "good" tag. The good tags these days only pretty much make it easier to shoot a mid buck. Big ones are still rare.

The method comes down to picking a place that has historically produced big deer (Boone and crocket books help with this) and spend a hell of a bunch of time hunting in those areas.

There's no cheat code. There's really not all that much to it other than picking an area and not pulling the trigger until you find a big deer.

I agree with everything you said. I think you looked at the question backwards though. It was more of an is it possible to find decent ones on average units, not where do I find the biggest ones.

 

[willfrye027]

I almost exclusively hunt easy to get tags, and almost every year I at least see a good buck. Sometimes I can get them killed.

It has taken me a while to get there with lots of time and energy invested into learning the craft. And I am still absolutely a student of the game, I don’t think you can ever fully “arrive” when it comes to mule deer hunting.

There are definitely some units or even states where the odds are terrible to find a big deer, period. There are others where you have a chance if you put the time in and also get a little lucky.

I would absolutely not be afraid to grab a mediocre tag and get after it. The best thing you can do is spend a week in the summer scouting. Your odds of success on a nice animal skyrocket doing that.

If you have some places already in mind and want to discuss in PMs I can give you my thoughts