Action Design For Hunting

[Steve300xcw]

Nope, I’m sincerely wanting to switch to Tikka for various reasons.

The safety design, which is inferior to what I’m carrying, is the reason I don’t.

Being this particular forum, I knew any suggestion of Tikka decencies would cause plenty of folks to lose their mind. Thus the disclaimer.

Nobody really cares about the tikka part. It's an easy spot to pick at though.

What is the purpose of this thread? What were you hoping to get from it?

 

[Kjc103]

All of that are cognitive disconnects. Regardless of your background with a HK and M4 is- this is a nonsensical issue born out of lack of experience and understanding.
The T3 safety cannot fire unless you pull the trigger- regardless of the safety being “bumped off”.
The safety on your M4 can get bumped off. The safety on your shotgun can get bumped off. The safety on your M77 can be bumped off. The safety on every single gun ever made can be “bumped off”- even a Blaser “bumped” hard enough.

I see over 100,000 rounds a year fired from T3’s, 200+ days of field use a year with them, and hundreds of animals killed all nicer the country. Not one time has a safety been “bumped off”. The MRC isn’t any different- in reality M70 style wing safeties are more apt to get moved accidentally.

This is a completely contrived “issue”, that you have made a “thing” out of.

Do you carry your Tikka with a round chambered and the safety on?

 

[grfox92]

Nope, I’m sincerely wanting to switch to Tikka for various reasons.

The safety design, which is inferior to what I’m carrying, is the reason I don’t.

Being this particular forum, I knew any suggestion of Tikka decencies would cause plenty of folks to lose their mind. Thus the disclaimer.

No one is losing their minds, just trying to make a rational argument for what you are trying to insinuate.

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[Steve300xcw]

TMK stands for Total Massacre Kings right?

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Totally Mangled Keen's

 

[JohnJohnson]

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Do you carry your Tikka with a round chambered and the safety on?

Do you carry loaded while not maintaining control of your rifle?

 

[Kjc103]

Do you carry loaded while not maintaining control of your rifle?

Huh?

If you go back and read the posts maybe you can hop in what we’re talking about.

 

[hibernation]

I think the fatal flaw in the Tikka action for hunting is that it is not rock solid safe to carry a round in the chamber. If you do carry it hot, even if it’s unlikely, that safety can be flicked off and that trigger can snag on any number of things and go off. To a lesser extent, the bolt could flip open, though I have never personally had that happen.

Am I misunderstanding something here, or is your issue that it's possible for the safety to be unintentionally disengaged, and an external object to activate the trigger? Is that not an issue for literally any rifle with a physical safety switch?

The best safety designs? Blaser R8 (Sauer 505 too), Ruger M77. The blaser cannot possibly fire, there is no energy in the firing pin. It is totally inert until cocked. The M77 locks all the way back and snug against the bolt. It’s not protruding, it has zero play, and you can physically see metal on metal blocking that firing pin from dropping. The edge goes to the blaser design here but I’ll argue all day the merits of the M77. They’re rock freaking solid. Unfortunately, there’s just not a lot of good aftermarket options for a modern lightweight stock.

The Winchester model 70 and any similar with the largish blade are better than tikka/remington but I’m only like 85 percent confident carrying an M70. I want to be 100 percent. The safety is always a little loose fitting and not confidence inspiring.

The R8 is more like a cocker/decocker than a traditional "safety", right? But for the remaining models, how is this different than the Tikka? They're physical safety switches, and yes, if they were inadvertently switched to fire and the trigger was pulled... the rifle would fire.

You don't have to carry one in the chamber if you're this nervous about it. If I have one chambered, then the rifle is in hand and under control. For the safety to come off, and the trigger to be depressed, and me to lose control of the muzzle all at the same time...

Seriously, am I missing something here?

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Huh?

If you go back and read the posts maybe you can hop in what we’re talking about.

Your premise is most safeties are unsafe, can get bumped off and a trigger could get pulled, right?

We've all been telling you ONLY carry loaded while you have direct control of the rifle otherwise unload it. Thus following basic fundamentals your scenario is a unicorn.



If someone were to strap a loaded firearm to a pack and go crawling through the brush and it touches off it isn't the safety that failed... the user did.

 

[grfox92]

Huh?

If you go back and read the posts maybe you can hop in what we’re talking about.

Must have gone over your head. What the gentleman above is asking is if you maintain proper muzzle control of your rifle. Because if you did, then none of this would be all that much of a concern.

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[hibernation]

Do you carry your Tikka with a round chambered and the safety on?

While carrying the rifle in hand and actively hunting, generally yes.

If the rifle goes on a sling or on my pack, the chamber is empty. Otherwise it's mostly in hand, usually chambered, and just gets emptied either when something is confirmed dead or when I'm back at the truck.

 

[robtattoo]

Do you carry your Tikka with a round chambered and the safety on?

Yes. But only in my hands when I have total control over the direction it's pointing.

As I do with my Rem700, Mauser 98, Mauser 96, Rem 721, ARs, shotgun etc...

 

[grfox92]

Yes. But only in my hands when I have total control over the direction it's pointing.

As I do with my Rem700, Mauser 98, Mauser 96, Rem 721, ARs, shotgun etc...

Your walking around dangerous line my friend.*

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[Steve300xcw]

As I do with my Rem700

That shouldnt even be on the list. Bolt handle probly broke off when you went to rack in a round. And we know the trigger is froze up after riding in a dirty gun case.....0% chance of that thing going off. Might be the safest rifle ever made..

 

[Thegman]

Yes. But only in my hands when I have total control over the direction it's pointing.

As I do with my Rem700, Mauser 98, Mauser 96, Rem 721, ARs, well, most of the time, shotgun etc...

Fixed it for you, Rob...

 

[cottonant]

You either are capable of handling a firearm in all conditions or you are not capable. There is no work around and in BACOS case certainly no magic button


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Interesting. Sounds like guns really don't need a safety at all then.

 

[Kjc103]

Am I misunderstanding something here, or is your issue that it's possible for the safety to be unintentionally disengaged, and an external object to activate the trigger? Is that not an issue for literally any rifle with a physical safety switch?

The R8 is more like a cocker/decocker than a traditional "safety", right? But for the remaining models, how is this different than the Tikka? They're physical safety switches, and yes, if they were inadvertently switched to fire and the trigger was pulled... the rifle would fire.

You don't have to carry one in the chamber if you're this nervous about it. If I have one chambered, then the rifle is in hand and under control. For the safety to come off, and the trigger to be depressed, and me to lose control of the muzzle all at the same time...

Seriously, am I missing something here?

You’re mostly getting what I’m saying.

The design I’m using now, a Blaser R8, is designed to be carried with a cartridge chambered. The hammer, however, is not supposed to be cocked until you see game. It takes a lot of force to cock that hammer. I do not believe it is even remotely likely, or that it has ever happened, that anyone ever has accidentally cocked that hammer by snagging in brush etc. It was designed by people that hunt driven boar in Germany, fast shots, quick reloads, split second decisions. It is superior in this way and I find that valuable. See pictures attached.

A Tikka, is a flick of the safety. I personally, would not carry it around chambered on a live round as a practice.

I would switch to Tikka but for this one feature.

This is my point.

 

[Kjc103]

You’re mostly getting what I’m saying.

The design I’m using now, a Blaser R8, is designed to be carried with a cartridge chambered. The hammer, however, is not supposed to be cocked until you see game. It takes a lot of force to cock that hammer. I do not believe it is even remotely likely, or that it has ever happened, that anyone ever has accidentally cocked that hammer by snagging in brush etc. It was designed by people that hunt driven boar in Germany, fast shots, quick reloads, split second decisions. It is superior in this way and I find that valuable. See pictures attached.

A Tikka, is a flick of the safety. I personally, would not carry it around chambered on a live round as a practice.

I would switch to Tikka but for this one feature.

This is my point.

Blaser is ridiculously expensive. There was no way I could afford one until many years of hard work.

I used a Ruger M77 which doesn’t get enough love in my opinion. It also has a safety design that I personally feel confident in carrying with a live round.

This is also my point.

What I want, will likely never happen unless I develop it myself. Someday I might. That is a simple Tikka style action with the Blaser cocker/decocker design. One that is simple, reliable and affordable.

 

[Kjc103]

Your premise is most safeties are unsafe, can get bumped off and a trigger could get pulled, right?

We've all been telling you ONLY carry loaded while you have direct control of the rifle otherwise unload it. Thus following basic fundamentals your scenario is a unicorn.



If someone were to strap a loaded firearm to a pack and go crawling through the brush and it touches off it isn't the safety that failed... the user did.

That is not my premise, re-read.

 

[Marbles]

That is not my premise, re-read.

?
In response to:

Your premise is most safeties are unsafe, can get bumped off and a trigger could get pulled, right?

And you saying as much with more words

The design I’m using now, a Blaser R8, is designed to be carried with a cartridge chambered. The hammer, however, is not supposed to be cocked until you see game. It takes a lot of force to cock that hammer. I do not believe it is even remotely likely, or that it has ever happened, that anyone ever has accidentally cocked that hammer by snagging in brush etc. It was designed by people that hunt driven boar in Germany, fast shots, quick reloads, split second decisions. It is superior in this way and I find that valuable. See pictures attached.

A Tikka, is a flick of the safety. I personally, would not carry it around chambered on a live round as a practice.

So, perhaps you should reread your own words.