Able to chamber the brass but not able to chamber the rounds on twice fired brass

[SYS]

Able to chamber the brass but no able to chamber the loaded rounds on twice fired brass

1. FL resized the brass and bumped shoulder 2-4/1000
2. Able to chamber the brass after FL sizing and shoulder bump.
3. Measured the CBTG=2.895 and loaded 230 gr a tip at 2.85. I am able to chamber the rounds with once fired brass, but not able to chamber the twice fired brass ( even I am able to chamber the brass; all rounds r loaded and 2.85.) I can’t figure out why.
4. Also I noticed the primer pocket on twice fired brass is a bit loose comparing to once fired brass, which is expected.

Any suggestion?


1. Norma Mag bras Fired once and twice.
2. Bullet: Hornady A tip 230 grain
3. Redding competition S die sets
4. FL sizing with shoulder bump 2-4/1000

 

[wapitibob]

Only a few reasons fired brass won’t chamber
Base to ogive too long
Base to case mouth too long
Base to shoulder too long
Body ahead of case head isn’t sized enough

 

[Jimbee]

I've had to sand down shellholders to fully resize brass.

 

[SYS]

Only a few reasons fired brass won’t chamber
Base to ogive too long
Base to case mouth too long
Base to shoulder too long
Body ahead of case head isn’t sized enough

Thank u Wapitibob for ur suggestion.

I was able the chamber the brass. But not able to chamber the loaded rounds on the twice fired brass, no issue with the once fired brass. These brasses are all FL with same shoulder bump and loaded at the same length.

I can’t figure it out.

 

[LaHunter]

When you are chambering these sized pieces of brass, is your firing pin and plunger ejector removed from your bolt? Your bolt handle should fall freely with no resistance.
Same when finding the lands with a loaded ‘dummy’ round. Google Alex Wheeler method. Another possibility is that you could be deforming the brass at the shoulder area when seating the bullets if you have a lot of resistance.
Last, do you have a bore scope? A carbon ring can interfere with chambering rounds.

 

[chav0_12]

Are you trimming your brass? I didn't see it mentioned is the only reason I ask. Are you chamfering and deburring the inside and outside of the case mouth? I've notices when not chamfering and deburring that the shoulder can get a little crushed causing a round to not chamber. What cartridge are you working with?

 

[SYS]

all the brasses are FL sized and base to shoulder distance at 2.072.

After loaded the bullet CBTO at 2.85

1. Once fired brass base to shoulder remains at 2.072

2. After loading 230 Grain A tip, somehow Twice fired brass base to shoulder up to 2.075. That is why I can’t chamber the rounds.

Why the base to shoulder distance changed after loading on twice fired brass?

Any idea?

 

[SYS]

When you are chambering these sized pieces of brass, is your firing pin and plunger ejector removed from your bolt? Your bolt handle should fall freely with no resistance.
Same when finding the lands with a loaded ‘dummy’ round. Google Alex Wheeler method. Another possibility is that you could be deforming the brass at the shoulder area when seating the bullets if you have a lot of resistance.
Last, do you have a bore scope? A carbon ring can interfere with chambering rounds.

LAHunter,

Thank u for ur message!

I didn’t remove the firing pin and plunger.

I did measure the CBTO with the once fired brass from same rifle. It is jam at 2.895”.

All brasses r FL sized and bumped 2-4/1000” shoulder and base to shoulder measured at 2.071-2.072. Somehow the twice fired brass base to shoulder increased to 2.075 after loading 230 Grain A Tip bullet. But the once fired brass remains at 2.071-2.072 after loading.

I can’t chamber at 2.075. That is the issue. But why the base to should distance changed after loading bullet on twice fired brass not on the once fired brass though?!

 

[Cahunter805]

What cartridge? Belted Case?

 

[SYS]

Are you trimming your brass? I didn't see it mentioned is the only reason I ask. Are you chamfering and deburring the inside and outside of the case mouth? I've notices when not chamfering and deburring that the shoulder can get a little crushed causing a round to not chamber. What cartridge are you working with?

I don’t not trimming the brass since it is once or twice fired brass.

I didn’t chamfering / deburring since it is only 1-2 time firing.

I m working on 300 Norma Mag with 250 grain A tip Hornady.

 

[chav0_12]

I can’t chamber at 2.075. That is the issue. But why the base to should distance changed after loading bullet on twice fired brass not on the once fired brass though?!

I would say that your brass is still growing, it can take more than one firing for the brass to be completely fire-formed to your chamber. You might be experiencing some spring-back or just need to make sure you're setting the shoulder back far enough.

don’t not trimming the brass since it is once or twice fired brass.

I didn’t chamfering / deburring since it is only 1-2 time firing.

I would be double checking lengths to ensure trimming isn't necessary. Regardless if trimmed or not, I would still chamfer and deburr, this allows for less resistance when seating a bullet, I would do this before loading after sizing and checking lengths. The issue that I'm describing is very similar to crushing a case when not adjusting a taper crimp correctly. It does sound like you're not experiencing that though. Either way, I ensure that I chamfer and deburr as part of my case prep before any other process begins.

 

[SYS]

I would say that your brass is still growing, it can take more than one firing for the brass to be completely fire-formed to your chamber. You might be experiencing some spring-back or just need to make sure you're setting the shoulder back far enough.


I would be double checking lengths to ensure trimming isn't necessary. Regardless if trimmed or not, I would still be chamfer and deburr, this allows for less resistance when seating a bullet, I would do this before loading after sizing and checking lengths. The issue that I'm describing is very similar to crushing a case when not adjusting a taper crimp correctly. It does sound like you're not experiencing that though. Either way, I ensure that I chamfer and deburr as part of my case prep before any other process begins.

Chav0_12,

Thank you so much for ur advice.

will do in the future load.

 

[Scottf270]

I had some cases I didn't chamfer and 3 out of 20 didn't chamber correctly. Only thing I could feel was a slight edge on case neck. I pulled bullets, chamfered the cases and reloaded bullets. They all chambered fine. I got lazy and it got me.

 

[EdP]

What Chavo said makes the most sense. When incrementally adjusting your sizing die to get the desired shoulder setback you should initially see the base to shoulder length increase. At that stage the body is getting squeezed but the shoulder is untouched. Once the die is adjusted where it starts contacting the shoulder the base to shoulder length will decrease. If you did not observe that change, you probably were not setting the shoulder back on either the first or second sizing and your brass grew too long at the shoulder.

 

[Novashooter]

Able to chamber the brass but no able to chamber the loaded rounds on twice fired brass

1. FL resized the brass and bumped shoulder 2-4/1000
2. Able to chamber the brass after FL sizing and shoulder bump.
3. Measured the CBTG=2.895 and loaded 230 gr a tip at 2.85. I am able to chamber the rounds with once fired brass, but not able to chamber the twice fired brass ( even I am able to chamber the brass; all rounds r loaded and 2.85.) I can’t figure out why.
4. Also I noticed the primer pocket on twice fired brass is a bit loose comparing to once fired brass, which is expected.

Any suggestion?


1. Norma Mag bras Fired once and twice.
2. Bullet: Hornady A tip 230 grain
3. Redding competition S die sets
4. FL sizing with shoulder bump 2-4/1000

1. If you aren't annealing, definitely shoot more for that .004" mark.
2. Good, I'm assuming no resistance at all. Do you feel any sticking when extracting that sized case? On a bolt action you have mechanical advantage when locking, but none when extracting.
3. How did you get these numbers? If you used some kind of seating depth gauge, and then seat bullets using a comparator, it doesn't mean those measurements are comparable, which can be the case with cheaper gauges. The old school method of seating a bullet loosely in a case, and closing the action works really well, then you use your same comparator tool to get the same measurement for both.
4. I'm not sure why you expected that. Some people load rounds right to the limit for one reason or another which will loosen primer pockets quickly. For normal loads running in SAMMI pressure limits, you shouldn't get loose primer pockets for a long time, certainly not on the second loading.

So let me run this by again. So you can take a brass case that chambers in your rifle, seat a bullet in it, and it will no longer chamber? Then you probably are jamming the bullet into the rifling. It's also possible, although unlikely if not a target rifle, that your case neck is too thick. This shouldn't be a problem unless you have a target rifle with a tight chamber where you would be turning case necks.

 

[SDHNTR]

Color up a loaded round with a sharpie. Color the bullet ogive, the shoulder, neck and the lower part of the case above the web. Remove the firing pin. Chamber the round and eject. See where it’s rubbing.

 

[LaHunter]

LAHunter,

Thank u for ur message!

I didn’t remove the firing pin and plunger.

I did measure the CBTO with the once fired brass from same rifle. It is jam at 2.895”.

All brasses r FL sized and bumped 2-4/1000” shoulder and base to shoulder measured at 2.071-2.072. Somehow the twice fired brass base to shoulder increased to 2.075 after loading 230 Grain A Tip bullet. But the once fired brass remains at 2.071-2.072 after loading.

I can’t chamber at 2.075. That is the issue. But why the base to should distance changed after loading bullet on twice fired brass not on the once fired brass though?!

It is really hard / nearly impossible to get really precise measurements / indexes on your chamber with the firing pin and plunger in place. That is why I use the 'Alex Wheeler' method.
The brass base to shoulder can 'grow' after sizing if the shoulders aren't actually making contact with the sizing die and getting pushed back. It can take 2-3 firings before brass has grown enough to actually be moving the shoulders back during sizing for some cartridges.

 

[Vern400]

SDHNTR speaks wisdom. Color up or smoke a cartridge, shove it in the hole, and see what's interfering. Expo dry erase markers work too.

I always trim to the low end of tolerance, and chamfer ID and OD. I don't want to be out there almost hitting. The ID chamfer can really screw up your concentricity and velocity scatter if you don't get it right. It might make sense to check your neck diameter after loading also. A fat neck can cause you problems.

I load primarily in very large batches after developing a load. I always chamber the first several cartridges I make and then periodically thereafter. The longer you hand load the more particular you will become.

 

[SYS]

What cartridge? Belted Case?

300 Norma Magnum

Not belted case

 

[SYS]

Color up a loaded round with a sharpie. Color the bullet ogive, the shoulder, neck and the lower part of the case above the web. Remove the firing pin. Chamber the round and eject. See where it’s rubbing.

Left: the round can’t be chambered.
Right: comparison of Lt: not able to chamber; right able to chamber.

Thank u for ur help!